Easy to Apply, Hard to Ask: Addressing Your School Website’s Focus

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.919 --> 00:00:07.280 You're listening to The Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in 2 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:12.480 higher education. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, 3 00:00:12.720 --> 00:00:16.359 donor relations, marketing trends, new technologies, and so much more. 4 00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:21.480 If you're looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this podcast 5 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:32.679 is for you. Let's get into the show. Welcome to this week's episode 6 00:00:32.679 --> 00:00:37.640 of the High Reed Marketer podcast. I'm Troy Singer partnering with Bart Kaylor, 7 00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:41.880 and each week we interview high reed marketers that we admire for the benefit and 8 00:00:41.920 --> 00:00:46.960 hopefully the betterment of the entire higher reed community. Our guest today is Bob 9 00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:52.880 Johnson from Johnson Consulting, and we talked to Bob, who has a wealth 10 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:58.280 of knowledge and experience in higher reed marketing, about websites and calm flow and 11 00:00:58.840 --> 00:01:04.079 the improvement and making sure that they are working as optimized as possible. Bart, 12 00:01:04.359 --> 00:01:07.319 Yeah, Bob's a great guest, and I have known about Bob for 13 00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:11.519 many many years. I've admired his work and and he's really kind of a 14 00:01:12.319 --> 00:01:15.239 uh you know, kind of one of those uh you know, pillars in 15 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:19.840 the higher ed marketing community. He's been doing the work for many, many 16 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:23.680 years. I was first introduced to his work in the mid two thousands. 17 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:29.040 He's obviously done a lot of research and it's very knowledgeable and just does an 18 00:01:29.079 --> 00:01:33.239 awesome job of sharing his wisdom. On today's show, here's our conversation with 19 00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:38.200 Bob Johnson. Bob, we are so excited to have you on our podcast 20 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:44.000 and to get into your experience and what you're working on now. But we 21 00:01:44.079 --> 00:01:48.879 love starting our conversations with our guests by asking them if there's something that you've 22 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:53.599 learned recently that you would think as interesting enough for the community to know. 23 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:59.000 Something I just learned this morning was possible pathway because I don't know about it 24 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:05.599 in detail yet. I was reading the blog newsletter from Terminal UH for the 25 00:02:06.040 --> 00:02:09.199 web people in Dublin, Ireland that have that work with a lot of higher 26 00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:15.080 education institutions all around the world, and they're concerned or they're talking to people 27 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:21.560 in that blog letter about what's going to happen to higher education marketing online when 28 00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:25.159 Google Analytics no longer well not not just the change in Google Analytics, but 29 00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:30.960 when cookies aren't being used anymore. Cookies seem to be on the demise by 30 00:02:30.039 --> 00:02:32.840 the end of next year, so it's not like we have to fix things 31 00:02:32.840 --> 00:02:38.400 in a hurry. But things like retargeting advertising, which some people still think 32 00:02:38.479 --> 00:02:43.240 is really creepy, but a lot of higher education institutions use it, and 33 00:02:43.319 --> 00:02:46.360 some of them use it well and some of them not so well. Those 34 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:49.280 things are going to be harder to do. So Terminal four was talking about 35 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:53.439 a new approach to analytics and tracking what people do on your website called funnel 36 00:02:53.439 --> 00:02:59.319 Back, and before we end today, I'll give people a way to search 37 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:01.919 and do what I do. I just signed up for the funnel Back newsletter 38 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:07.759 h so I can get direct from them. They're working with universities in the 39 00:03:07.879 --> 00:03:10.599 UK and the u S. I'd honestly never heard of it before, but 40 00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:15.080 that's why I read other people's blog things, because other people no more than 41 00:03:15.120 --> 00:03:19.360 I do. And Terminal four was right on it. They mentioned a couple 42 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:23.280 of universities, including University of Edinburgh, which has done a lot of work 43 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:29.599 with top task research and really focusing the website on the needs of students who 44 00:03:29.719 --> 00:03:32.199 use the site. So as soon as I saw they had been a client 45 00:03:32.280 --> 00:03:37.319 of funnel Back, I said, then there must be something good about this. 46 00:03:37.479 --> 00:03:40.960 Creighton University has also either is or has been a client as well. 47 00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:46.240 Uh. One of the things tauted about it is that it will help you 48 00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:52.479 discover terrible con and not terrible but unused content on your website. And just 49 00:03:52.560 --> 00:03:59.879 about every higher education website suffers from an excess of building up content that's never 50 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:05.479 removed. My my colleague friend and partner in Dublin, Ireland, Jerry McGovern, 51 00:04:05.879 --> 00:04:10.680 has a phrase I've often used in conferences that websites always eat, they 52 00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:18.319 never poop. For the most part, no higher education website team is charged 53 00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:24.120 with the systematic reduction of unused content on the site. There's a couple of 54 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:27.279 them out there that are, but that's pretty rare. And of course, 55 00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:30.319 the bigger and more bloated your website, the worst your search function works. 56 00:04:30.839 --> 00:04:34.519 And that's what funnel back is designed for. So that's what I that's the 57 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:38.800 that's the new stuff I learned. I'm really interested in that kind of thing 58 00:04:39.240 --> 00:04:45.319 because most of my professional interests today are focused on making more effective marketing websites 59 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:49.120 for better student recruitment, and so that's why I I jumped on this as 60 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:54.519 soon as I saw it in the Terminal four blog. Bob. I'm assuming 61 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:59.800 that most people know who you are within the higher ed marketing community, but 62 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:03.319 I don't want to take that for granted. So please, if you could 63 00:05:03.319 --> 00:05:08.160 give us as quickly as possible and with all your expertise, I know it 64 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:12.839 might take a little while, but give us a glimpse of your journey. 65 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:16.160 And uh, I want to set the stage for the reason why there's very 66 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:20.639 few people that we can have as a guest that can speak to higher ed 67 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:26.920 marketing and websites like you. Well, I've been involved. I've been doing 68 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:31.680 higher education marketing since oh, I'd say the mid nineteen eighties. I was 69 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:35.399 involved with Tom Hayes and creating, you know, helping set up Tom was 70 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:41.920 the initial founder and helping set up the Symposium for the Marketing of Higher Education 71 00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:46.040 just before it went over to the A m A. And Tom told me 72 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:48.439 at the time he called me on the phone in the eighties because I was 73 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:53.120 the only person he could find in higher read with the title vice president from 74 00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:57.279 marketing that I had at a college in Detroit at the time. So that 75 00:05:57.399 --> 00:06:00.399 led him to me. We've had a partnership of so it's ever since and 76 00:06:00.519 --> 00:06:03.279 I when it went over to the A m A. When the symposium went 77 00:06:03.319 --> 00:06:06.720 over to the A m A, I chaired that for about ten years, 78 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:13.360 from the early nineties to the early two thousand odds. UH. During that 79 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:18.199 time, I developed a higher ed marketing newsletter to promote the symposium and to 80 00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:24.120 collect subscribers. And I've been writing that ever since, uh since nine, 81 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:29.879 and it's still gets subscribers. People leave, people arrive. I don't know 82 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:31.879 what's bringing new ones in these days, but they still come, so it 83 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:36.000 balances off. And UH, that's what I'm primarily doing. I call myself 84 00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:41.079 semi retired now. I'm not actively looking for new clients. I'm not looking 85 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:44.600 for, you know, things to do at conferences. I did that for 86 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:49.240 fifteen didn't have the thirty years, and I don't miss the airports, so 87 00:06:49.800 --> 00:06:54.000 uh, I still write that. I do a Link of the week every 88 00:06:54.040 --> 00:06:59.439 every week in between the newsletter. I pick a college or university website link 89 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:04.680 that I think is particularly good in the higher education atmosphere marketing atmosphere. And 90 00:07:04.759 --> 00:07:08.680 I still as long as I have fun doing that, I'm gonna end doing 91 00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:12.519 things like what we're doing right here today. Then I'll keep doing that. 92 00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:17.360 Uh. I. I held university marketing positions older in the nineties until the 93 00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:20.360 year two thousand. In the year two thousand, I went to work with 94 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:25.759 an agency in Albany, New York. I worked with them for six years. 95 00:07:26.519 --> 00:07:30.000 After six years, I went on my own as an independent consultant. 96 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:32.120 I just got I just wanted to be on my own, and I thought 97 00:07:32.120 --> 00:07:35.839 I had enough recognition that that would work for a time, and it did 98 00:07:35.959 --> 00:07:41.680 so. From two thousand and six until just before the pandemic, I was 99 00:07:41.720 --> 00:07:46.360 actively involved in that, and then I kind of east into the semi retirement 100 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:50.040 stage and still involved, not quite as active as before. Started a new 101 00:07:50.040 --> 00:07:55.079 project this week, though, and uh I'll tell you up front, and 102 00:07:55.120 --> 00:08:01.600 this new project is doing a competition review the client and the project person. 103 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:05.920 The project school, which I'm not at liberty to name right now, is 104 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:11.720 only the second school that I've ever worked with or been a secret shopper at, 105 00:08:11.240 --> 00:08:15.959 that used the name of the academic program they asked me about when I 106 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:20.560 filled out their inquiry form. They actually referred that on the first email response 107 00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:24.959 I got. And not doing that, I think is one of the major 108 00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:31.800 marketing mistakes that almost every college and university in the land makes they collect that 109 00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:35.639 information on their inquiry form, and most of them never referred to it, 110 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:39.799 at least in the first couple of weeks of email inquiries. And this new 111 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:43.679 client, by god, it was a forensic science program. That doesn't narrow 112 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:48.000 it down too much. There's a lot of those in the country, and 113 00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:52.840 they mentioned forensic science that I that I was interested in that in the email. 114 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:56.200 I've only had one of those ten years ago from a regional public university 115 00:08:56.200 --> 00:09:01.840 in Wisconsin, UH, where I said I was interested in pre med and 116 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:05.159 I got an email back. I got two emails back in the first four 117 00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:09.759 one from the chair of the Biology department and one from the head of the 118 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:16.759 pre Med committee, and that I regard as masterfull detailed, conversion oriented follow 119 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:20.600 up marketing UH, which is an area where so many schools could do so 120 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:24.799 much better work than they do now. Isn't that interesting, Bob? I 121 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:28.080 mean, I've known of you for a very long time. I think we 122 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:31.000 just recently met, but I've known of you for a very long time. 123 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:35.039 And my first highered website was in my alma mater. Had heard that I 124 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:37.879 was doing websites and asked me to be a part of theirs. And I 125 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:41.360 got picked up by the Chronicle in other places, but I was aware of 126 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:45.679 your work early two thousand's And it's funny, just as you tell that story 127 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:50.320 about that secret shopping situation that you're in right now, that technology has been 128 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:54.120 around for a while. Just the idea of variable data and personalization. I 129 00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:56.080 mean, it's it's not something that's you know, it was invented in two 130 00:09:56.120 --> 00:10:00.360 thousand nineteen or two thousand twenty. And I agree with with you. I 131 00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:03.279 mean, most of the most of the modern CRMs, most of the you 132 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:07.480 know, a lot of the technology and websites can allow for that personalization. 133 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:13.360 But it's and we all hear so many times that personalization is what gen z 134 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:18.679 and and these these generations want to see, that's what makes them get excited 135 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:22.080 about things. But it just seems like that's a that's a missing opportunity that 136 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:26.960 a lot of schools, their marketing departments just aren't aren't grabbing onto. And 137 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:31.720 in this case, the two other schools that are the competitors of the clients 138 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:35.759 school, uh, neither one of them paid any attention to what I put 139 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:37.720 down as a program of interest. When I filled out the form. They're 140 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:43.600 they're busy trying to get me to visit campus. UH. A couple of 141 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:48.159 days after I filled out the inquiry form, which I would regard as slightly 142 00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:54.120 premature, but whatever, neither one of them mentioned the the academic program that 143 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:58.360 they asked me about. We will be right back after a word from our 144 00:10:58.399 --> 00:11:05.919 sponsor. Today's podcast is brought to you by our d O Education Solutions. 145 00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:11.039 Are DAO helps colleges and universities increase access to education while giving students and families 146 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:16.720 financial peace of mind. Our dao's Loan Repayment Assistant Programs, known as l 147 00:11:16.840 --> 00:11:22.320 raps, help students with modest incomes repay their federal student parent plus in private 148 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:28.320 loans. Are dao's l raps give students the confidence they need to enroll and 149 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:31.759 are a win win for your institution. To learn more about our d O 150 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:37.080 and see case studies from institutions like yours, visit ourdo dot org. That's 151 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:46.399 a r d e O dot org. Welcome back. Let's rejoin the conversation 152 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:50.320 right here on the higher ed marketer. Isn't it funny you mentioned that you 153 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:52.799 know, trying to get them on campus, and it seems like so much 154 00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:56.679 in higher ed everyone is so eager to kind of get you to that next 155 00:11:56.720 --> 00:11:58.840 step of commitment. And I've often joked, and I don't remember if we 156 00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:01.960 talk about this in our pre interview, but I've often joked that, you 157 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:07.080 know, getting a person to your website that's just discovered who you are and 158 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:11.799 building a relationship and you ask them to either visit now or apply now, 159 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:15.279 it's like asking your spouse to marry you on the first date. It's it's 160 00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:18.240 so premature and there's so much more WOU that could go on before that. 161 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:22.799 What do you think about that? I think that's absolutely right. Uh. 162 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:28.080 I used to use the analogy and presentations about you know, the first date 163 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:31.320 isn't the time to ask somebody to go to Paris with you? Probably, 164 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:33.960 I mean, depending on how you're reading the first date. But usually you 165 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:37.840 have to cultivate these things a little bit. Maybe you wait for the second, 166 00:12:37.879 --> 00:12:39.159 the third, the fourth time, or something like that. But yes, 167 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:43.559 I agree, and Ti, you can jump into it, uh too 168 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:50.000 quickly. I see still a lot of higher education websites that it's actually difficult 169 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:56.320 to become an inquiry. It's easy to apply for admission on the as if 170 00:12:56.360 --> 00:13:00.759 people will do that on the furry first visit, and most schools just don't 171 00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:05.679 have the marketing prowess. If you will, the maybe that works for Harvard 172 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:09.559 and Yale and so forth, or University of Michigan here where I am in 173 00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:11.879 Michigan, but it doesn't work for most schools. You've got to get move 174 00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:16.279 people along in the direction of why they should be doing that. Even inquiry 175 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:22.759 form is kind of misleading. Uh. Most inquiry forms say to get more 176 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:26.960 information, fill out the form, and an awful lot of potential students now 177 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:31.200 want to get the information they want to get when they visit the website. 178 00:13:31.159 --> 00:13:33.720 There's a reason to get people to sign up, but you've got to give 179 00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:37.200 them more of a reason. You tell them what they're going to get. 180 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:41.799 What's the benefit to them from filling out your inquiry form besides helping populate your 181 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:46.519 database. And there are a few schools that do a pretty good job with 182 00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:48.919 that. I mean, I have a collection of schools that actually do a 183 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:52.919 good job of telling you what you're going to get when you fill it out, 184 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:56.440 and then repeating that when they get the online response form that pops up 185 00:13:56.480 --> 00:14:03.039 after you do the inquiry form on on the website, but too many of 186 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:07.720 them just don't pay any attention to that. They just don't It's an opportunity 187 00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:13.240 for immediate contact after somebody fills out that form, and uh, it's not 188 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:16.759 taken advantage of nearly as well as it should be. Obviously, we're talking 189 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:20.440 about an inquiry form and the action that we want them to take when they 190 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:24.000 come to the website. But that but you've done a lot of research in 191 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:28.120 your career about the top tasks that that students, especially traditional undergrad students, 192 00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:31.159 are looking for when they arrive on your website. And we all know that 193 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:35.039 the website is the number one influencer. I mean, that's that that's coming 194 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:37.840 out in the data all the time, is that it is your number one 195 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:43.399 choice to kind of get the relationship started. What are those top tasks in 196 00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:46.679 your research that you found that those prospective students are looking for when they arrive 197 00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:50.360 on the homepage. Well, let's put it in the context of the Yeah, 198 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:54.639 the top two or three and not obsessed too much about which is number 199 00:14:54.679 --> 00:15:00.320 one and which is number two because they're both important. Academic program availability is 200 00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:03.559 still extremely high. It's always been high as long as we've been doing that 201 00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:09.879 research. People want to know whether or not you've got the program that they're 202 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:13.240 interested in, and if they're already interested in one, and if they already 203 00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:20.039 know you have it because you know, uncle Charlie, our aunt Mary told 204 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:24.120 him to, you know, look at Western Michigan University because they've got blank 205 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:26.240 and blank. Then they want to get to your website and they want to 206 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:30.799 get the hell off the website as fast as they can, or off the 207 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:35.240 home page as fast as they can to get to the particular program that interest 208 00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:39.200 them. Uh. So that's that's a number. That's still number one or 209 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:43.679 number two. What we actually found out, and this was with a university, 210 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:48.200 uh, primarily oriented to adult students. We did a top tests. 211 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:54.360 Are very surprised everyone involved, from the university to us that costs came out 212 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:58.919 first. And this was pre two th eight. Costs have gone up much 213 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:06.279 higher since two thousand and eight, even among among traditional and adult students. 214 00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:08.799 So it was a surprise. I guess we did that research and about two 215 00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:15.399 thousand five or six or somewhere back there, and in effect they were saying, 216 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:18.000 well, we want to know what it's gonna cost us, uh, 217 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:23.879 before we go any further on the site. UH. So that's that's probably 218 00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:27.519 the number for many people. That's at least the number two issue right now. 219 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:36.200 UH. A number three issue, particularly for adults, but also increasingly 220 00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:41.720 UH for younger students are out outcomes information. What what happens if I go 221 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:48.039 to your school, take your major that interests me, and graduate, what 222 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:56.720 happens next? And and that's an area where almost no schools really have substantive 223 00:16:56.759 --> 00:17:03.679 information about outcomes relate needed to a particular majors they offer at the school. 224 00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:07.519 That's difficult to compile. I've been told there are some schools, at least 225 00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:11.000 a couple of schools would do it, and that would be in a mark 226 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:17.200 a competitive advantage for schools that had that would be a way to differentiate themselves 227 00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:21.960 from the majority of schools that don't. Most schools, what they put up 228 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:26.960 on the website, UH is the percentage of the over they graduates who are 229 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:33.519 either employed or in graduate school within six months after graduation. UH. I 230 00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:37.640 don't. I have never seen a college or university that does not have that 231 00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:41.720 information to put up. And that isn't really what people are looking for when 232 00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:47.839 it comes to outcomes. UH, it's not a differentiator, but where they're 233 00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:52.200 really lacking most schools still is an easy way for people to get an estimate 234 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:57.519 of what it will cost them personally. Bart you mentioned personalization. Uh, 235 00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:02.559 how can I find out how can I get an estimate doesn't have to be 236 00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:06.519 the final word, but how can I get an early estimate in the conversion 237 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:11.400 process and the recruitment process of what it's going to cost me to go to 238 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:15.319 your school without having to fill out the FAFSA, without having to fill out 239 00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:19.400 a pre FAFTSA or anything like that. Would you please tell me give me 240 00:18:19.480 --> 00:18:23.400 an idea what it's gonna cost and and my favorite source for that I think 241 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:30.559 we mentioned last week is, uh the my Intuition Format, which is you 242 00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:36.960 know, used by several dozen schools, mostly private, uh, but some 243 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:41.240 public. In Massachusetts, three or four parts of the public university system are 244 00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:47.440 using it now. And a student can go on there and fill out seven 245 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:52.680 steps. Seven steps is all they need, and they get an estimate back 246 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:56.960 from the particular school it's using it of what they are a package is gonna 247 00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:00.480 look like a more important you know, what is the net cost to them? 248 00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:04.519 Uh? So I would encourage I didn't just learn about this this week. 249 00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:08.279 But I would certainly encourage anyone listening to at least check that out. 250 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:14.000 I think it's my intuition. Uh and and go and look and see what 251 00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:19.000 it's all about. Was invented by a professor at Wellesley uh an economics professor 252 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:23.519 years and years and years ago. It wouldn't still be working there if it 253 00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:27.759 didn't work. Well. They still connect to the s the FAFSA, which 254 00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:30.640 is logical. You know, if they like what they see there, then 255 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:36.759 they'll go do something else. But so those three things academic programs cost to 256 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:41.440 me, uh not sticker price, because we know that's what scares everybody away. 257 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:45.559 So we've got to get past the sticker price. My intuition is a 258 00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:48.480 easy way to get past the sticker price, and then the outcomes. Uh 259 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:52.759 Now, if your residential student, and I'll pass it back to you, 260 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:56.119 folks. Residential student, obviously, at some point you're gonna want to learn 261 00:19:56.160 --> 00:20:00.960 what it's like to live and experience on the ambush. And that's when you're 262 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:03.920 gonna want to go visit and do all those kinds of things about the dorms 263 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:06.960 and so forth. Yeah, and a lot of that what you just said 264 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:10.039 there a lot of that should also be kind of intuitive in the way that 265 00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:14.440 the design to layout, the photography, the videos are presenting that. Um, 266 00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:15.359 you know, students don't want to read it. They want to be 267 00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:18.720 able to experience that. But I think those are great points, Bob, 268 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:22.359 those those three elements, and I think it's interesting, um you know, 269 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:26.519 because I think one of the one of the challenges that people don't realize is 270 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:33.440 our friends Google have created these knowledge panels for every university UH in the in 271 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:37.960 North America, and basically they've they've indicated the fact they're just pulling at least 272 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:41.079 the United States, pulling iPads data and giving you know, churning out the 273 00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:48.559 graduation rates, the um the average cost of attendance after after UM, after 274 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:52.359 discounts, so that data is out there even before the students are getting to 275 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:56.640 your website. And so I love your point of sites like my Intuition, 276 00:20:56.160 --> 00:21:00.519 sites like you know, being able to put the informationation about tuition and costs 277 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:04.200 up front and clear because we know students are looking at that, parents are 278 00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:07.519 looking at that more than ever before. So Bob, these are really great 279 00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:11.359 points, and I think that I think those are really really good things. 280 00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:14.799 One thing I did want to kind of tease out a little bit on that. 281 00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:18.599 UM Bob is also just this idea of help me understand a little bit. 282 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:22.599 When you look at I mean you've you've looked at this for many years, 283 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:26.000 the idea of navigation. UM. I was looking at a site the 284 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:29.720 other day and and somebody asked me to review it, and I think I 285 00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:33.119 counted up fifty seven unique links on the homepage. Uh, you know, 286 00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:37.640 and it wasn't a long, drawn out long homepage. It was a pretty 287 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:41.559 short homepage. Help me understand. Especially, one of the big debates I 288 00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:45.880 hear a lot is the idea of audience centric navigation. So I have to 289 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:49.519 identify in my undergrad and my adult and my degree completion and my graduate and 290 00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:57.119 my online versus more of a more of a functional type of navigation where you 291 00:21:57.160 --> 00:22:00.039 know, I've got about, I've got an academic, I've got admissions, 292 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:04.319 I've got you athletics. Help me understand what your what your research has shown, 293 00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:08.920 and your your expertise. Well, the first point I guess I would 294 00:22:08.920 --> 00:22:15.359 make is that the top the top tasks don't differ that much based on type 295 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:22.240 of student visiting the site. So I've had I've had clients who UH doing 296 00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:26.279 the research, they insist on breaking down the results from graduate students, for 297 00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:33.480 instance, versus undergraduate students. Uh. There are certainly differences among those groups, 298 00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:38.119 but when they first come to the website, they're remarkably similar. They 299 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.079 want to know if you have the program, they want to know what it's 300 00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:45.680 gonna cost, and they want to know what's gonna you know, what's the 301 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:52.079 benefit to them if they finished the program. So I think the variation on 302 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:59.160 the audience centric is not to obsess over the eighteen year olds are dramatically different 303 00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:03.920 than the thirty year roles. They're not with respect to the task they want 304 00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:07.720 to do when they come to the site. Actually, the you know, 305 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:11.000 the new client right now actually does a remarkably good job. I mean they 306 00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:15.359 have the pathway that the only thing you see when the website, when the 307 00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:21.079 homepage opens is the websites to the academic programs and then a differentiation for online 308 00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:25.599 programs so you can quickly get into those. And I've seen recent research, 309 00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:27.200 by the way, that shows that their high school level, you know, 310 00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:33.400 people graduating from high school are more interested in hybrid or online programs than they've 311 00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:38.519 been before. And that you can call out a benefit or not of the 312 00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:45.640 pandemic results. Right, but UH, schools who made an investment in online 313 00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:49.559 education during the pandemic. Uh, we need more research on this, but 314 00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:55.720 if the initial research is accurate, UH, they're gonna reap the rewards of 315 00:23:56.079 --> 00:24:00.720 today's younger students being more interested in that than they were before. And so 316 00:24:00.759 --> 00:24:04.279 this is the time to to, you know, to really work on that. 317 00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:07.920 So audience is important. I think the first decision the school has to 318 00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:14.079 make is the primary purpose of the website is to recruit students, and the 319 00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:18.839 homepage has to be focused on that. We've never done a top task survey 320 00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:22.599 where, for instance, I remember this is people coming to the site for 321 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:27.440 the first time, but this is a new students uh, where news stories 322 00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:33.160 didn't rank as close to the bottom of the task list as you could possibly 323 00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:37.599 get the and and let me let me say this for people, A typical 324 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:41.319 top test survey would have been about a d potential tasks by the time the 325 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:47.319 prep work is done. And so it would always include alumni notes, you 326 00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:51.119 know, alumni content. It would include news stories because you know, no 327 00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:56.400 school doesn't want to test for that. Uh. News stories always always always 328 00:24:56.759 --> 00:25:00.400 near the bottom of that list. It's a tiny task, a very tiny 329 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:04.039 task for most potential students. So what I tell schools, you know, 330 00:25:04.279 --> 00:25:08.960 you don't want to rage a holy war within your institution about getting them off 331 00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:14.400 the page necessarily they don't need to be there for student recruitment, but at 332 00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:17.640 least put them at the bottom of the page. Don't make it the first 333 00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:22.400 or second thing. It's usually not the first, but it's frequently the second 334 00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:26.839 of the third thing on a home page. Um, put them down the 335 00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:30.359 bottom. If you've got to have them there, put them down to bottom 336 00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:34.720 someplace where they're out of the way of the potential students. Because unless there's 337 00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:38.359 been a dramatic change in the last three years, it's just not high on 338 00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:41.279 the list of what new students want to see. We already talked about what 339 00:25:41.319 --> 00:25:45.559 they want to see, and that just doesn't That just didn't come up. 340 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:48.279 The other one that isn't as high for most schools as a lot of people 341 00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:52.559 think it is is sports. Sports is kind of a mid level thing. 342 00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:59.279 Unless you're interested in playing a particular sport, that's a little different. But 343 00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:03.119 if you're not planning to go to school to play a particular sport sports has 344 00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:07.160 never ranked particularly high. And I guess the mantra I just repeat what I 345 00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:11.599 said earlier. For the people who do start on a home page, not 346 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:15.759 everybody does by any means. The purpose of using the home page is to 347 00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:18.119 get off it as quickly as possible to something else they want to see. 348 00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:25.119 Uh. Thank god, we're past the stage of carousels, where people thought 349 00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:30.799 somebody might stay on the homepage and patiently wait or flop themselves through eight different 350 00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:33.440 carousels at the top of the page. And then God bless the people that 351 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:41.440 not tre Dame many years ago now did research on that and discovered that something 352 00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:45.240 like eight five of the people who came to their homepage never saw anything except 353 00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:48.160 the first piece of the carousel that was at the top, because they got 354 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:53.480 off they went someplace else. In addition to the work that you do with 355 00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:59.160 websites and optimizing the function of them, you also do a lot of work 356 00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:03.039 with optimized enrollment yield strategy and would like to talk to you about that. 357 00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:11.119 And you had mentioned before that you do secret shopping exercises and you have a 358 00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:15.079 weekly newsletter that reports on what you find. Could we start the conversation out 359 00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:21.920 there. Well, sure, you know, I think one of the there 360 00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:26.119 are schools that spend a certain amount of time, you know, desperately seeking 361 00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:33.279 new potential student audiences at various places around the country, usually distant from their 362 00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:36.920 own home or often, I don't want to say usually, but often distance 363 00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:41.200 from their home location as a way of solving an enrollment problem. I think 364 00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:48.319 that's okay if you very carefully do it after you first really said, I've 365 00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:53.200 maximized everything I think I can do to convert the people who are coming to 366 00:27:53.359 --> 00:28:00.160 me now, sometimes through buying search names, sometimes through you know, just 367 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:03.960 a reference from again, you know, Uncle Charlie or Aunt Mary. Most 368 00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:07.599 people, the majority of students going to college, we all know they're gonna 369 00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:11.160 go fairly close to home. They're not going to travel very far. It's 370 00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:18.000 the really high end academic and economic students that tend to travel more than others. 371 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:22.119 Your average typical student is gonna stay fairly close to home. You can 372 00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:26.200 look at the geographic spread of students in Michigan, for instance, of every 373 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:33.359 regional university and guess what most of them Most of them come from within a 374 00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:38.880 geographic distance of that particular regional university, although we have a problem with those 375 00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:42.240 in the state right now, and so look at the conversion. So that's 376 00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:47.400 where I would come back to, how are you first responding to people in 377 00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:52.200 text and email and what are you talking to them about. You've really got 378 00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:55.920 to know as much as possible about them. If all you've got is the 379 00:28:55.960 --> 00:29:00.039 inquiry form, pay attention to it and use the academic program if you've bought 380 00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:07.039 their name. If it's a self reported a CT or college board score, 381 00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:11.720 the student went to take the test and they sent you the score, you 382 00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:17.079 should be reading the information you get from that very carefully, because if you're 383 00:29:17.160 --> 00:29:23.119 serious about starting a personal relationship, there's incredible information that direct market is would 384 00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:29.519 die for in there about what the students tell you about their college aspirations, 385 00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:33.720 what kind of help they need, what they expect to get. I will 386 00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:38.279 confess to not having checked the a C T Form in four years now, 387 00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:44.799 but up until that point they were actually doing something that the college Board was 388 00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:48.039 not on the S A T. They were asking the students their degree of 389 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:52.079 interest in a particular major. And one of the things I learned, at 390 00:29:52.119 --> 00:29:57.160 least all during the nineteen nineties was that students who said they were seriously interested 391 00:29:57.200 --> 00:30:03.839 in mechanical engineering, for instance, converted at a far higher rate than people 392 00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:07.599 who were just casually interested. They had three levels of interest to pick from, 393 00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:11.920 and if they picked the top one, and they had a good academic 394 00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:17.920 profile, and you could beg a mechanical engineering professor to call them on the 395 00:30:17.960 --> 00:30:22.720 phone, which was difficult to do, but if you presented them with the 396 00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:26.720 right profile of the right student, they would actually do it. But what 397 00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:30.640 we had to make sure there, of course, was that they were when 398 00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:33.160 the when the student picked up the phone and somebody said on professor so and 399 00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:37.160 so, they would react to it because they were coming from the same major, 400 00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:41.119 because they were seriously interested in the major. So the bottom line, 401 00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:49.440 I think here is pace most serious attention to self reported inquiries that are coming 402 00:30:49.480 --> 00:30:56.720 and are you doing everything you can to maximize the conversion of those students. 403 00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:02.039 Those students are yours to lose, and this self reporting their information to a 404 00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:06.000 handful of schools. You might be number one, you might be number three. 405 00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:11.559 If you're number three, you might become number one if you follow up 406 00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:15.319 with those people in a way that number one isn't doing. I love the 407 00:31:15.319 --> 00:31:18.920 fact too, that you're really focusing on again using the data that that we 408 00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:23.480 already have, so that you know that self reported data through the College Board 409 00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:27.839 Information this and a c T. It's the self reported data that they put 410 00:31:27.880 --> 00:31:32.279 on the inquiry form. And even to the point we we did this with 411 00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:37.279 a recent school last year. Was one of the incentives that we gave students 412 00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:41.279 to engage them deeper even in the in the inquiry funnel was letting them take 413 00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:44.720 a quiz and it was a fun quiz, and it was kind of a 414 00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:48.759 silly quiz. You know what's your favorite food to eat when you study? 415 00:31:48.920 --> 00:31:51.319 Or you know what kind of music do you like to listen to when you 416 00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:55.240 study? But what we did is we took that then and then pushed back 417 00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:59.680 very personalized messages to not only the students, but to mom and dad and 418 00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:01.880 so was like, hey, we were really excited they learned that Bob loves 419 00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:07.359 eating nachos listening to country music when he studies. Who would have thought, 420 00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:10.200 let us tell you about the you know, engineering program at x y Z 421 00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:15.920 University. Being able to do that is going to generate conversations with the parents 422 00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:19.000 and the students. It's going to be able to generate interests because all of 423 00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:21.759 a sudden we we heard them. That's one of the things we know about 424 00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:24.160 gen Z is they want to be heard. They want to be listened to, 425 00:32:24.759 --> 00:32:28.599 and so um, I love the idea, Bob, that you're saying 426 00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:31.960 is really especially when you're looking at yield strategies, you know, where in 427 00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:37.400 the funnel can we start inserting these types of messaging that's going to not only 428 00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:42.039 impact the students but also parents. With more schools doing test optional, maybe 429 00:32:42.039 --> 00:32:45.920 they'll start to see a reduction in this self reported category of people. But 430 00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:50.920 there I suspect most schools are still getting a lot of those. Uh. 431 00:32:51.319 --> 00:32:54.000 You know. One of the more surprising things I heard was an A C 432 00:32:54.200 --> 00:33:04.200 T person in the uh oh mid let's say two thousand five, and he 433 00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:07.319 walked into the A c T Enrollment planners conference when it was still in Chicago. 434 00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:13.240 Before A C T went Never mind what they went to, but uh, 435 00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:15.640 good conference back then. I have been recently, and what he said 436 00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:20.880 was what you people were doing, You're he said two things. One year 437 00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:24.960 over buying our names. You're not targeting them specifically enough. And that's absolutely 438 00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:29.440 correct, and many schools still do that. But the other thing he said 439 00:33:29.559 --> 00:33:34.799 was we found out that at least half of the colleges and universities that get 440 00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:40.839 self reported a c T scores put those into their general inquiry full pool and 441 00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:46.000 don't give them any special attention whatsoever. They become just like the person who 442 00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:52.480 signed up at a high school fair or or you know, or something like 443 00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:59.119 that. When he said these should be your highest converting prospects of anybody, 444 00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:02.039 you've probably never heard of them, and for some reason they sent you their 445 00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:07.719 test score and and all this other information we talked about earlier, and uh 446 00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:12.400 Steve who was giving the presentation then when he was still at a c T 447 00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:15.920 and he said, we're astounded by this, and he said, you folks 448 00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:21.800 are doing this all wrong. The value here is make these your priority group 449 00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:25.599 of inquiries that you want to follow with. And that information was good, 450 00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:31.320 you know, fifteen sixteen years ago. I hope there's nobody out there still 451 00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:37.400 doing that, but if there is, you need to move move past that 452 00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:43.320 immediately. And that's what I mean by making sure you're maximizing everything you can 453 00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:49.639 do in the early conversion stage before you start trying to mind for new gold 454 00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:54.000 in areas far removed from your campus, because that's just a very very difficult 455 00:34:54.000 --> 00:35:00.880 thing to do. Thank you very much for everything that you've shared today. 456 00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:05.639 Bob would like to ask you if you could offer one additional thought or idea 457 00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:10.440 that someone hearing it could be implemented right away. What would that thought or 458 00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:15.639 idea, that piece of advice be. I would actually go back to what 459 00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:21.000 I just mentioned. If you're not already doing something special with those self reported 460 00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:24.320 test scores that many people are still sending you even in this test optional era, 461 00:35:24.760 --> 00:35:30.480 that's something that you could change immediately and it would begin to reap new 462 00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:35.119 rewards. I know that because we used to. We I mean I used 463 00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:38.039 to when I was working at a university. We tracked that stuff like crazy, 464 00:35:38.119 --> 00:35:43.960 and the single highest group of enrolling people that we got was self reported 465 00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:46.320 people. And it was hands down, it was far away from anything else. 466 00:35:46.639 --> 00:35:52.320 Way above. You know the apps that came back, uh when a 467 00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:54.480 councilor went out to a cow was working at a Catholic university, went out 468 00:35:54.519 --> 00:35:59.079 to a Catholic high school and they had free app day, you know, 469 00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:01.480 and the counselor's end, everybody down to sign up. And those things didn't 470 00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:07.800 convert at hardly at all. Thank you, Bob. For those who would 471 00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:12.599 like to contact you, what is the best way for someone to reach you 472 00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:17.039 or how should they go about to do so? I would just google Bob 473 00:36:17.079 --> 00:36:22.440 Johnson Consulting dot com and you'll you'll get there, and it's very easy to 474 00:36:22.440 --> 00:36:27.360 sign up for my newsletter and my link of the Weeks from Bob Johnson Consulting 475 00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:31.719 dot com. I'm not actively soliciting new clients these days, although I am 476 00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:36.639 taking occasional work from people I've known for years and years and who have been 477 00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:40.000 newsletter subscribers. So that's what I still do regularly, the monthly newsletter, 478 00:36:40.280 --> 00:36:44.559 the weekly Links of the Weeks. I love to have people join me there 479 00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:50.440 and build up the subscriber base. Thank you, Bob Bart. Do you 480 00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:54.000 have any closing thoughts that you would like to share? Yeah? I do. 481 00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:58.719 This has been a great conversation. I've really appreciated so much of what 482 00:36:59.119 --> 00:37:01.800 Bob has talked about. I really liked the research so that he talked about 483 00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:06.079 the top of the of the show with the top tasks, and you might 484 00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:07.440 go back and re listen to some of that, because I think those are 485 00:37:07.480 --> 00:37:09.960 some really clear things that you need to take a look at you know, 486 00:37:10.079 --> 00:37:14.280 have an honest look at your website and make sure that you are you know, 487 00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:19.280 providing easy access and easy information to those tasks that students are looking for. 488 00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:22.519 And I really also appreciated, you know, his comment, um that 489 00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:27.159 he talked about just making sure your website is enrollment focused. That's something if 490 00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:30.719 you're a regular listener here on the podcast you've heard me talk a lot about, 491 00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:34.880 is you know, just the importance of of enrollment focused websites. Um, 492 00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:37.760 you know, content that's gonna get you know, answering the questions that 493 00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:40.880 that prospective students and influencers have, and then you know, ways to generate 494 00:37:42.039 --> 00:37:45.360 you know, people to get to that content into your website. So those 495 00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:47.920 are some really good things. And and and and I really also appreciated some 496 00:37:47.960 --> 00:37:52.719 of those lower level tasks that he talked about, which you know ended up 497 00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:55.519 being news and maybe sometimes athletics, depending on who you are, that that 498 00:37:55.559 --> 00:38:00.239 we really sometimes put higher than what they need to be. And then only 499 00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:02.199 I really liked, um, you know, just this whole point of your 500 00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:07.440 gathering data, whether it's self reported through you know, as a students sharing 501 00:38:07.480 --> 00:38:10.360 their test scores with you, or if it's an inquiry form that you've collected 502 00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:15.360 some data. Use that data in your personalization and your comflow, in your 503 00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:17.760 in your emails, in the way that you communicate with your students. I 504 00:38:17.800 --> 00:38:21.679 really thought that was a lot of wisdom in that as well, So Bob, 505 00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:23.360 thanks again so much for joining us today. It's been quite a pleasure. 506 00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:27.719 Thank you for having me. Been a fun time. The Higher Ed 507 00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:34.639 Marketer podcast is sponsored by Kaylor Solutions and Education marketing and branding agency and by 508 00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:39.840 Ring Digital, providing significant lifts and yield by following your list with precisely targeted 509 00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:45.480 ads, and by Thing Patented, a marketing execution company combining direct mail and 510 00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:51.760 unique digital stacks for higher ed outreach success. On behalf of Bart Kaylor my 511 00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:58.480 co host, I'm Troy Singer. Thank you for listening. You've been listening 512 00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:01.280 to The Higher ed Marketer. To ensure that you never miss an episode, 513 00:39:01.480 --> 00:39:07.039 subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. 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