Empathic Storytelling: Identifying Appropriate Content for Your Audience

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.919 --> 00:00:07.280 You're listening to The Higher Ed Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in 2 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:12.480 higher education. This show will tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, 3 00:00:12.720 --> 00:00:16.359 donor relations, marketing trends, new technologies, and so much more. 4 00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:21.480 If you're looking for conversations centered around where the industry is going, this podcast 5 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:39.200 is for you. Let's get into the show. Welcome to the High Red 6 00:00:39.280 --> 00:00:43.159 Marketer Podcast. My name is Troy Singer. As always, I'm here with 7 00:00:43.280 --> 00:00:48.759 Bart Taylor, a project partner, friend and mentor. Each week we invite 8 00:00:48.799 --> 00:00:54.439 marketers that we admire or sometimes that are recommended to us and have wonderful conversations 9 00:00:54.520 --> 00:00:58.960 that the rest of the marketing community can hopefully benefit, learn from, and 10 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:03.799 be a little entertained. Today we get all three. We're talking to Cutler 11 00:01:03.880 --> 00:01:08.599 Andrews. He is the Senior Associate VP for Engagement, Communications and Marketing at 12 00:01:08.680 --> 00:01:15.719 Emory University. Cutler is energetic, He's super smart, and you can see 13 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:21.680 the reason why he leads this advancement and marketing team at Emery. He gives 14 00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:26.000 a lot of information and I can't wait for our listeners the benefit from the 15 00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:29.719 information that he shared. Yeah, it's such a great podcast. I've really 16 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:32.959 enjoyed getting to know Cutler over these last couple episodes that we've talked to him 17 00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:36.319 and meetings that we've had. Uh. He is very smart, and he 18 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:38.719 goes into a lot of details about how Emory, you know, a large 19 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:44.120 R one institution, how they are using storytelling, how they're using content, 20 00:01:44.599 --> 00:01:48.200 the ways that they're thinking about that through their personas, and and even down 21 00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:52.359 to the point of maybe even some of the emotions around that, the empathy 22 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:56.200 that they try to look at when they when they're putting that content together. 23 00:01:56.239 --> 00:01:59.680 So a lot of really practical, pragmatic things. And and keep in mind 24 00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:04.280 too, a lot of the supplies regardless if you're a big school like Emory 25 00:02:04.400 --> 00:02:07.680 or if you're a small, tiny micro college, which is a new term 26 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:09.960 I learned this week. Uh, those types of things are going to apply 27 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:14.280 to you regardless, and so a lot of really good things to talk about 28 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:19.400 it. Today. I'm happy and proud to bring our conversation to you with 29 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:24.879 Cutler Andrews Color. We're excited to have the conversation about Emery, excited to 30 00:02:24.919 --> 00:02:30.759 have the conversation with you about what you're doing. But before we get into 31 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:34.080 it. We always like to start our conversations off with our guests and ask 32 00:02:34.199 --> 00:02:38.280 them if there's something that interesting or something that you've learned this week that you 33 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:44.439 could share. Yeah, it was. I was traveling this week visiting alumni 34 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:46.639 and some of our volunteer leaders of the New York this week, and it 35 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:52.159 was a really good reminder as someone who sits back here in the office a 36 00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:55.759 lot, as a marketer and a communicator of the need and the value of 37 00:02:55.800 --> 00:03:00.680 actually being out in the field. I think oftentimes what we do is we 38 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:02.000 look at data, we look at analytics, we look at you know, 39 00:03:02.039 --> 00:03:06.520 click throughs and open rates, and we analyze it from that standpoint. But 40 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:10.439 I actually sit down with somebody who's receiving your content and who's experience in it. 41 00:03:10.479 --> 00:03:15.800 From that standpoint, I sometimes forget the value of that. And it 42 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:21.159 was extremely eye opening this week to be able to do that, to talk 43 00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:25.719 through you know, what does embory feel like and look like to you from 44 00:03:25.719 --> 00:03:30.039 a marketing communication standpoint, and what are the things that we can do better 45 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:34.280 and to be willing to actually listen to make those changes. And so it 46 00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:37.719 reminded me that I need to do it more and not sit behind the screen 47 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:42.039 and to really, I mean communication and marketing is two ways, and if 48 00:03:42.080 --> 00:03:46.719 we don't have the mechanism for feedback and return, we're not going to be 49 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:50.199 able to build value and make the changes that were that we need to make. 50 00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:55.120 Color. I assumed that most people know Emory, but if you would 51 00:03:55.280 --> 00:04:00.159 high level, can you give us a brief description of memory. We are 52 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:05.840 a research one university, so we have a nine schools within the institution about 53 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:12.639 a mix of undergraduate and graduate overall. We have a really large academic medical 54 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:15.279 center as well. We're Division three, so we have a we have a 55 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:18.879 strong athletics, but their Division three athletics that is not the tail that lags 56 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:24.160 the dog here um and it is a it's a fascinating it's top twenty five 57 00:04:24.199 --> 00:04:29.199 institution. It's absolutely incredible research, incredible students and faculty to come out of 58 00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:31.879 here as well. Um as folks know, it's in Atlanta, so we're 59 00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:39.000 in this kind of epicenter of of of commerce and travel and research with the 60 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:43.120 CDC almost sitting right on our campus. So it's a really unique institution from 61 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:46.600 that standpoint. Thank you. And at the beginning of the intro, I 62 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:53.120 did say your title, but if you could for context tell everyone what rolls 63 00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:58.920 up through you. Yeah. So in my area, I oversee our the 64 00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:01.399 in realumni Association and all alumni engagement. On that side, we also have 65 00:05:01.879 --> 00:05:08.680 a team that's called Marketing to donor Participation, which is um comprised of our 66 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:14.959 marketing and communications team overall of our our creative team or content strategists. We 67 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:18.040 have a multimedia team as well as from a traditional standpoint, a new giving 68 00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:23.439 teams that focus on the university but also focused on the the acamic medical center 69 00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:29.160 side of the house as well. We manage most of the primary events for 70 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:35.319 the university also everything from homecoming to commencement, everything and kind of in the 71 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:39.600 mix there overall, and we also have done a relations in a large project 72 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:43.439 management team. That's pretty cool. Thank you for sharing all that, Cutler, 73 00:05:43.480 --> 00:05:46.199 and I know that when we had our pre interview and we were talking 74 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:50.240 about some different iteas and things to talk about with all of those teams reporting 75 00:05:50.279 --> 00:05:54.680 up to you, and I really loved your interview question at the very beginning 76 00:05:54.680 --> 00:05:59.959 about what you've learned and the importance of that two way feedback making content digest 77 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:01.920 sestable. And I'm sure, that's part of what you know, when you 78 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:06.279 have that feedback, you know that it's digestible because they are responding back to 79 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:10.600 you and what you said. Um, let's talk about that a little bit, 80 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:14.240 because, I mean, the idea of of all those different departments coming 81 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:16.480 up, there's a lot of content that's coming out of out of where you're, 82 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:19.839 where you're sitting, what you're doing, and um, you know, 83 00:06:19.879 --> 00:06:26.079 making that digestible and I might even say, you know, intriguing or educational 84 00:06:26.199 --> 00:06:31.399 or entertaining is a big responsibility, especially in today's marketing world, where content 85 00:06:31.519 --> 00:06:34.480 is kind of kind of the king right now and it will be for a 86 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:36.879 while. So let's talk a little bit about that. How how are you 87 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:42.160 guys really focused on that and what you're thinking around that idea. Yeah, 88 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:46.439 it's interesting. When I think about content, I think about it probably a 89 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:48.519 really broad sense. I mean, I think about the events that we do 90 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:51.920 as content. I think about kind of an a new giving letter from a 91 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:56.720 social media there's all of it is content for us. And you know, 92 00:06:56.800 --> 00:07:00.279 for us, we we start from the perspective of the audience, and again 93 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:03.920 we don't always get it right it is, but at the core we're trying 94 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:08.839 to you know, design thinking terms or trying to empathize with the audience and 95 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:15.560 understand outside of the context of emory what's important to them. I think oftentimes 96 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:19.480 there's a trap in in our industry is that their institution, their alma mater, 97 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:23.720 is the most important thing in their lives. It's not. I mean, 98 00:07:23.959 --> 00:07:27.360 sorry, they spent four to six years however amount of time here, 99 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:30.959 and there's a lot of other things that we have to be cognizant of when 100 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:34.079 we when we build that content out, we have to understand what channels are 101 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:38.639 using, We have to understand what their interests are. Um, we have 102 00:07:38.759 --> 00:07:41.879 to make sure we're kind of meeting them where they're at. We have certain 103 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:46.319 things that we're really focused on talking about. It doesn't mean they want to 104 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:50.399 hear it, and I have to somehow kind of it's it's a negotiation. 105 00:07:50.439 --> 00:07:55.879 I've got to kind of get them interested and certain things so almost I hate 106 00:07:55.879 --> 00:07:58.199 to say, like right to come almost click bait, like what is going 107 00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:03.279 to get guard their attend and in order to get them to hear the other 108 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:07.199 things that we want to talk about. And so we constantly look at it 109 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:11.560 and when we think we press or we challenge ourselves around the channels that we 110 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:16.920 use, the length of content, the messages that we do. Do we 111 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:20.319 we we've used an analects on the front end to kind of build out the 112 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:24.160 strategy, but then we also use pretty significant reporting and analysis on the back 113 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:28.360 end to understand what was it effective or not. And like I said earlier, 114 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:31.000 it's part of it's going out and just talking to people. I mean 115 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:35.519 it's great I can look at all the data, but I can also hear 116 00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:39.120 the idea, So that mix of qualitative and quantitative data that's critically important. 117 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:46.120 We've leaned more heavily into visual content. You know, universities are really good 118 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:52.799 at long form written content. We're not always great at taking that and digestion 119 00:08:52.840 --> 00:08:56.759 it down. I mean, I think a corresponsibility what we have is to 120 00:08:56.799 --> 00:09:01.360 make complex thoughts and concepts digest a little to a larger audience. Yeah, 121 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:03.200 it's kind of like that idea of you know, taking the alumni magazine and 122 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:07.279 turning it into a YouTube short. I mean there's a big, big difference 123 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:09.879 in that, but that takes a real skill to be able to do that, 124 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:13.159 and I think that's, uh, that's something to considers. So as 125 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:15.519 I think about, um, you know, what you guys are doing, 126 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:18.879 I'm guessing. And this is where I'd like to kind of tease out the 127 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:22.559 conversation a little bit. So many times we talked about the importance of personas 128 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:24.039 and starting with that, and I know that for you guys, I mean 129 00:09:24.519 --> 00:09:28.120 big institution, you know, a lot of different schools, a lot of 130 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.519 different paths through that, a lot of things that different. And so tell 131 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:35.679 me a little bit about how you guys are really looking at that alumni persona, 132 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:37.919 because it's not just one persona, that's correct, I mean, and 133 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:43.600 really, so we did a formalized percenter project here, so we you know, 134 00:09:43.639 --> 00:09:46.399 we did surveys, we did focus groups, we took analytics, and 135 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:50.279 we built out and up. We took about you know, thirty five clusters 136 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:56.720 down to seven personas, and what we talk about personas and press They're just 137 00:09:56.759 --> 00:09:58.639 a tool. They're not true all be all to this. And so I 138 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:05.120 have to take a persona data overlay it with school data, um action data. 139 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:07.279 You know, what are what else are they? How are they interacting 140 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:11.000 with us? So if I can say the Robert over here in the persona 141 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:13.720 is all these other things. But then I have to overlay all of these 142 00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:18.919 other data points into that, and really where the personas have been valuable is 143 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:22.320 slowing us down. I think we talked last time around kind of one of 144 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:26.799 the quotes from cars being you know you sometimes have to slow down to speed 145 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:31.879 up, And that's it's a struggle for us because the amount of content that 146 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:35.840 we have to produce. Um, we have deadlines for everything. It's not 147 00:10:35.879 --> 00:10:39.519 like I can move homecoming or I can move a campaign. I have to 148 00:10:39.559 --> 00:10:43.799 get to that point and taken extra time on the front end to really empathize 149 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:48.559 with the audience and think through this persona sometimes the easiest phase to skip because 150 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:52.039 we just want to go right to design and right to writing based on what 151 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:56.279 we know. So that's where I think been the most valuable tool for us. 152 00:10:56.919 --> 00:10:58.480 It is a moment to pause in the moment to think, a moment 153 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:01.519 to kind of challenge or an assumptions. I like that, and I like 154 00:11:01.600 --> 00:11:05.159 the fact that you talked about those overlays because I can think about you might 155 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:11.600 have an alumni of the medical center and a medical school who also is a 156 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:16.200 legacy parent, and so now all that changes that that relationship just just from 157 00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:22.480 that legacy layer, and so I'm sure that's part of that PERSONA exercises recognizing 158 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:24.919 that there's there's a lot more to it than just the poster on the wall 159 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:28.879 that you put together in the exercise exactly when we have cards that we have 160 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:31.759 that are made up of different personas. But to your point, like, 161 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:37.600 unless you really think about the complexity of each person they're still humans. We 162 00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:41.200 have to acknowledge that, you know, we're humans in are and we're multidimensional, 163 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:43.639 and you they don't want to fit us into a box, same other 164 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:46.559 people were trying to talk to and communicate with. We will be right back 165 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:54.399 after a word from our sponsor. Today's podcast is brought to you by spoke 166 00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:58.080 Note, the simple way to add video to anything. If you're looking for 167 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:01.279 an innovative, effective way to get someone's attention, you really ought to check 168 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:05.559 out Spokenote. They make these easy to use QR code stickers that allow you 169 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:11.480 to record and share personalized videos with anybody. 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That's great, so 177 00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:52.200 as you as we talked about this idea and I kind of alluded to it 178 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:56.240 earlier, about this idea of making it digestible and whether it's educational entertaining, 179 00:12:56.080 --> 00:13:01.360 tell me a little bit about I think sometimes the academics hired marketers which are 180 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:05.879 influenced heavily by academics. We can make things really complicated, and you kind 181 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:09.759 of indicated that with the with the cars analogy. Just you know, tell 182 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:11.159 me what you're I mean, you're laughing. People can't see that, but 183 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:15.200 you're laughing. Tell me tell me what you're thinking. Yeah, I mean 184 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:20.879 we if one thing we're strong at is over complicating simplicity, and it's um 185 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:24.639 and it's it's just the process of it. I mean, I think there 186 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:31.320 are nuances to it and it gets in the way of progress sometimes because the 187 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:35.039 focus is so much on why it won't work as opposed to how do you 188 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:39.679 make it work? And so really it was a shifting mindset for us. 189 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:41.600 It's like, okay, well, how do we make this simple? So 190 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:43.600 we did an exercise the other day one of our leadership team retreats was and 191 00:13:43.639 --> 00:13:48.000 it was basically on two sides of the room, we needed to map out 192 00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:52.440 all of the big, you know, obstacles that were within our control. 193 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:56.120 What are the challenge that we have as a leadership team, everything that's within 194 00:13:56.120 --> 00:13:58.840 our control, and then we mapped on the other side of the wall every 195 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:03.000 thing that our challenges that are not in our control. And so then everybody 196 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:07.440 went around the room and did their top five. But what it allowed us 197 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:09.480 do is we would walk through those on either side of the wall and say, 198 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:11.720 okay, well, if it's in our control, how do we as 199 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:16.799 a group solve it because we have absolutely control over that, and how do 200 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.399 we simplify the process for those things that are not in our control. It 201 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:24.519 doesn't mean we can't uh make improvements, we just have to work around it. 202 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:28.679 I mean there's a as you know and uh, I was talking about 203 00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:31.960 Stoic philosophy. There's a concept of you know, the obstacle is the way, 204 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:35.879 like what we have in front of us, what are the challenges? 205 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:41.200 Often the path forward, but so much we focus on why we can't forward 206 00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:46.600 there. So it's a it's a shifting mindst some of us also giving people 207 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:50.799 the freedom to make mistakes. I think in our space and a lot of 208 00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:58.279 spaces, the fear of being wrong or something an error happening, uh gets 209 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:01.879 in the way of of innovation and it causes them as a paralysis in that 210 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:05.200 way. And that's been a huge thing for us to work through. Is 211 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:07.840 when somebody comes to me that you know, there there's an extra space and 212 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:11.919 an email. So the salutation was off like it happens. We send it 213 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:18.279 eleven million emails a year. It's gonna happen, um, and you know, 214 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:20.159 and the question is, okay, well, how do we mitigate the 215 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:22.519 next time? And it's not. I mean, I'm glad you brought it 216 00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:26.200 to me, but I don't want that to stifle innovation. Yeah yeah, 217 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:28.519 And I'm I'm guessing too that along with all of that, and you kind 218 00:15:28.519 --> 00:15:31.679 of indicated in our pre interview was the idea that you've really got this passion 219 00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:37.440 for creating that new knowledge, creating those new discoveries that come out of those 220 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:41.639 failures, that come out of those you know, those opportunities to know figure 221 00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:43.799 out what we can control and what we have to work around. You know, 222 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:46.799 tell me about that. I mean, you've got some passion around that. 223 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:50.559 I think I do, and and really it is I think where I 224 00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:56.399 found most of the discoveries happen is hopefully kind of giving people that space to 225 00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:00.679 bring new ideas to the table. I'm not an expert everything in marketing communications. 226 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:04.519 I mean, I'm not your I don't understand ux proper ux for a 227 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:07.399 website the way that somebody who's an expert in that field, if it's social 228 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:12.960 media strategy. But being able to admit that hats and to be open and 229 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:18.679 to allow people to space to bring new ideas to the table has been critical. 230 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:25.759 And again sometimes the hastiness of everything going on has been a challenge for 231 00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:30.200 that. But I have learned so much from the team by just being able 232 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:37.559 to step back and sometimes not even reviewing something that goes out, removing myself 233 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:41.799 as the bottleneck and the review process to speed the process up. And so, 234 00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:44.679 like I said, I don't need to sign off on everything. Um, 235 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:47.039 if it comes back and there's a problem, I'll take the blame for 236 00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:49.000 it. If it's great, we'll give you the credit for it. Like 237 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:53.559 that's if it will learn from those things I think. I think as leaders 238 00:16:53.600 --> 00:17:00.000 in this area, giving people the space to do that is critically important for 239 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:06.079 innovation. That's great. I love that, Cutler. During the conversation about 240 00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:11.480 content, you naturally touched on channels. So we'd like to talk about not 241 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:17.000 only the content, but where these conversations are taking place. We like to 242 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:21.920 talk about the watering holes. I'm sure that you're as deliberate about the channels 243 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:26.319 and where these conversations are taking place as you are with the content. Yeah, 244 00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:30.359 I mean, I mean so with external audiences. I mean we're we're 245 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:33.319 leveraging the same channels probably everybody else's, and we're you know, do we 246 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:34.880 do it great? I mean we're we're still trying to figure it out. 247 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:41.279 And we still were heavy print, still email, were heavy email. We're 248 00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:45.200 salesforce marketing cloud now, and so we're leaning heavily into the automation and journeys 249 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:48.680 and the way we haven't done before. Um. We you know, we 250 00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:55.519 try multiple digital channels, we Kenny, we have not leaned into TikTok yet. 251 00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:59.759 And I the thought around it has been I don't want to just do 252 00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:03.680 it and not have a strategy behind it yet. Um. You know, 253 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:07.920 it is constantly changing, and I think that's been the hardest thing. I 254 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.000 mean higher it is still a very traditional space in this sector. And you 255 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:15.160 know, digital strategy is oftentimes seen as just sending out more emails or some 256 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:19.839 slightly different segmentation and emails or subject liient testing. That's that's ten years old 257 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:23.880 strategy, um. And so I think we're trying to figure out how to 258 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:32.640 truly evolve that more um and and overlay those things. And again it's we 259 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:37.039 have underinvested in many ways into the data side of things. You know, 260 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:40.559 what is our proper data cleansing process. Do we have the most up todate 261 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:44.119 email addresses? Do we have the most up to date employment information? Can 262 00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:47.319 we already reaching out to them in the right channels. If I've got five, 263 00:18:47.559 --> 00:18:49.839 you know, four or five email addresses in the system and I'm always 264 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:56.039 sending it to a Bell South dot net email, It's probably wrong and I've 265 00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:59.440 got a Gmail in there as well. So have we cycled through and tested 266 00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:03.680 those things out in different ways? Um? I think those are those are 267 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:07.480 growth areas for all of us. UM. And you know, every day 268 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:11.000 I turn around, there's something new, there's a new strategy out there. 269 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:15.079 UM. I mean, you hit our site, we're probably not going to 270 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:18.319 retarget you, um, which is a loss in a lot of ways. 271 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:26.480 We're trying to get there. But the Memories web pages are on multiple content 272 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:30.519 management system so we're ever here on droople A while the central pages on Cascade. 273 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:33.559 It's hard to kind of cross polity, and every school is on a 274 00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:37.680 different one too. Yeah. I would only imagine that that gets to be 275 00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:41.880 pretty challenging. UM. And and and be able to do that. So 276 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:44.920 when when you look at your I mean partly we go back to what we 277 00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:48.200 talked about with the personas. Personas can also start to identify where those watering 278 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:52.720 holes are. And I know that you know there's gonna be some natural watering 279 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:56.240 holes with homecoming and and events that you have in cities and things like that. 280 00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:00.000 But I think also, um, I think many time highered marketers we 281 00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:06.720 missed the opportunity to really look at those other places that are unique to your 282 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:11.480 school or your audience that can become those unique you know, watering holes that 283 00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:15.000 might not be for everyone. And you you kind of referred to earlier that 284 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:18.400 the fact that you've got the CDC in your backyard and there's there's other things 285 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:22.519 that are unique to Atlanta. I'm sure that you've got some some watering holes 286 00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:26.200 that you've discovered for Emery that you know, if you were to leave Emory 287 00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:30.000 and go to another university might not apply. I mean, what are some 288 00:20:30.039 --> 00:20:32.880 of those things that that are like that that that you could kind of, 289 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:36.400 you know, have share with everybody that maybe they can start to look at 290 00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:40.039 their environment differently to kind of see where they might be able to go. 291 00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:44.440 Yeah, I mean we've we've had this conversation quite a bit is around what 292 00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:47.599 what pulls people together here. I mean, we don't write, we don't 293 00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:52.880 have athletics in the same way we do have an incredible athletics program, but 294 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:56.559 it's nothing that that pulls folks in. We do have homecoms, we had 295 00:20:56.559 --> 00:21:00.680 a reposition homecoming reunions, and it is for us, it is because we 296 00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:04.279 don't have a central kind of football game we're all around round. So we 297 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:08.119 did a food and music festival because that's kind of this essence of Atlanta a 298 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:11.640 little bit is people will talk about that the music scene and the food scene 299 00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:15.720 here, so we kind of we really acknowledge the depth of who we are 300 00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:21.960 and what that experience was like here When students go out, there's not I 301 00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:23.759 mean, I went to un t Chapel Hill. There's Franklin Street. You 302 00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:29.880 can just walk over there, and that was where everything happened. Here is 303 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:32.319 not the same way you're getting in a car. You're going to Buckhead, 304 00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:36.440 you're going to Midtown, you're going to the Highlands. And so oftentimes when 305 00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:41.039 folks come back, we recreate those experiences. We we think about that area. 306 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:45.440 One thing we've also found that is that people want and what brings them 307 00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:51.480 together is access to unique experiences. You know, in New York, we 308 00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:56.160 have a producer, a Broadway producer, so he organized a program there that 309 00:21:56.279 --> 00:22:02.480 gave Emery A Lum's access to kind of stay after and talk to the director 310 00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:07.640 of the play. And it's one of those things that people like that there 311 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:14.400 there's a unique element to this creativity side, and they like access to researchers 312 00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:18.200 or financial experts, and so how do you cultivate those whether it is in 313 00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:23.240 person or virtually. Are you highlight those in communication? That for us seems 314 00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:26.200 to be those are our stars? Those are kind of the things the hooks 315 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:30.880 for folks that get them excited when they're coming together. Yeah, that's that's 316 00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:33.759 cool. And I'm guessing that when they come together, whether it's in person 317 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:40.480 or virtually or around an event, even a virtual event like Giving Day, 318 00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:44.079 that makes a big difference and allows them to kind of get engaged and and 319 00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:48.799 to kind of start to engage that two way conversation. Tell me a little 320 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:51.160 bit about that. I mean, we talked a little bit earlier about Giving 321 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:53.759 Day and you kind of have taken a different approach to that. Tell me 322 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:56.839 a little bit about that. That that thought and the change and the result 323 00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:02.119 that you've seen. Yeah, we so we gone from one kind of fairly 324 00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:04.240 standard Giving Day and we've we've modified it a little bit more and we actually 325 00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:07.640 added it at two. So we did a Giving week here in the fall 326 00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:17.119 basically around which is our campaign um and one more focused on kind of departments 327 00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:21.559 and programs. Because what you find here is that class year is not really 328 00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:25.960 the identifier that people come back to. They were in the department of biology 329 00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:32.640 or English or business that really they connect back or it's Greek life or athletics 330 00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:36.680 affinity groups that they connect with, and you know, we try, like 331 00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:41.640 we want the class of to be really connected, but they're not necessarily and 332 00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:44.720 I think for us to acknowledge that, So we've leveraged a little bit of 333 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:48.799 commnity's natural affinity groups as we thought about how we build out those programs. 334 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:55.400 Also, and you know, we leverage gamification within giving days and many of 335 00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:59.960 them do. It's like how do you have challenges and matches so people feel 336 00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:03.079 that there's other people who are giving, who are excited around this. I 337 00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:10.680 mean that it's the kind of the concept of UH like audience identification, for 338 00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:15.960 like, I want to see myself in UH the marketing materials. I want 339 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:19.440 to see myself and those who are already giving or social proofing that if other 340 00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:22.880 people are doing it, then I'm willing to do this as right. So 341 00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:27.240 we lead heavily into those things. UM. We've also everything we do, 342 00:24:29.079 --> 00:24:33.599 we leverage merge in a lot, so like I every chance I have to 343 00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:41.160 give somebody a t shirt, hat, tumble or something Emery. I go 344 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:42.160 for it, and people are, well, why are we giving away some 345 00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:45.759 of my stuff? It's marketing. It is somebody's women. I'm wearing an 346 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:49.599 Emery shirt right now. I want to see that. I want to I 347 00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:52.680 want to walk down the street in New York, Atlanta, Des Moines, 348 00:24:52.759 --> 00:25:00.680 Iowa and see somebody wearing Emery gear because it means they mean they consciously put 349 00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:04.119 something not and Troy it's got a highest state on like that conscious decision to 350 00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:08.839 wear, to have a cover. It makes you think about it in a 351 00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:11.599 different way. And I think it's kind of an underutilized I mean place like 352 00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:15.559 Emory. It's I walk around I was just a walk around campus and I 353 00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:21.160 see UH gear from other schools more than Amory. It's one of those things. 354 00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:23.039 So at home coming this year, we had, you know, almost 355 00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:27.160 seven thousand people signed up for homecoming. We gave out five thousand shirts, 356 00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:32.039 and I flew out the next day and I see people wearing him an airport. 357 00:25:32.119 --> 00:25:36.880 That's exactly. I'm just curious, what's the most sought after merch that 358 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:41.720 you've had one of our It's not really a mascot, but there's Duly here. 359 00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:49.079 So Duley's the skeleton um figure that is really known to undergraduates, and 360 00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:52.960 it's it's so unique to me. And I don't call it a mask. 361 00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:56.519 I don't really know even what to call it, but it's one of the 362 00:25:56.519 --> 00:26:00.440 most identifiable things about Emory. Swooper is our mascot, but really is focused 363 00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:03.799 a lot on an athletics time or some of it that is there. But 364 00:26:03.880 --> 00:26:11.920 when you talk to undergrounds, if they see Duly and Duly merchandise because it's 365 00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:15.119 really hard to get there's not much in the store, they love it. 366 00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:18.400 Besides that, it's always hats, like we'll go, we can give hats 367 00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:22.000 away left or right because you want to work about sizes. Everybody loves them. 368 00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:26.519 That's cool, thank you. That's great, I know for me and 369 00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:30.000 a lot of people. And I won't make you say this, Cutler, 370 00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:33.799 But when you think of Emery and its brand, you think of it being 371 00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:38.200 as one of the elite colleges in the South. And I'm sure that there's 372 00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:45.559 a standard that you have to live up to through messaging and from the alumni 373 00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:52.720 Advancement chair, if you can share some of the deliberate nous or you know, 374 00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:57.279 the differences that you can make and building that brand from the messaging that 375 00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:02.240 you do. Yeah, well, it only one correction of that. It's 376 00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:07.799 it's one of the most elite universities period, regardless of region. Um I 377 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:14.079 stand corrected. I stand corrected as a Northerner, and when I think of 378 00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:18.640 the South. Yes, it's it's a great question. I mean for us, 379 00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:22.839 it's how we tell those stories. I mean, I think Emory is 380 00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:29.839 sometimes humbled to a fault. I always said, Emory we're doers. We 381 00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:32.920 we the a problem, we go solve it, and we move on to 382 00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:37.079 the next problem. We don't talk about it. We've just we were onto 383 00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:41.039 the next thing. You know. When COVID happened, like our team leaned 384 00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:48.839 in and tried to find the best solutions possible and create vaccines. And you 385 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:55.279 know, I mean Emory Hospital had they see the lowest mortality rate of anybody 386 00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:59.920 who went on UM and I see you are on a respirator who is COVID 387 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:03.039 positive. And so those are the things that we just do. I mean 388 00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:07.480 with a bull of patient. We're the first university hospital to accept the bull 389 00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:11.480 of patients when they came in. And so my job is to help tell 390 00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:15.079 those stories. And you know we're not folks are not going to be see 391 00:28:15.079 --> 00:28:19.440 proud of um certain elements because we don't. They're not going to rally around 392 00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:27.960 a final four play or national championship, will rally around transformative research. And 393 00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:33.319 I think true impact on on the world. I mean, I think that 394 00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:38.440 is that global impact to something I've got. My my responsibility, the weight 395 00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:44.880 that we carry as a marketing communications team and with my partners in central Communications 396 00:28:44.920 --> 00:28:49.359 and marketing as well, is to make sure we have identified what those stories 397 00:28:49.400 --> 00:28:55.319 are, that we tell them in a way that reaches the widest audience possible 398 00:28:56.240 --> 00:29:00.359 UM and continues to engage people and look at us in a different a way. 399 00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:03.519 I mean it's great. I mean it's not the researchers. I wanted 400 00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:07.359 them to keep doing that. I want the students to keep pushing the envelope 401 00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:14.680 and our alumni to keep doing great things. My responsibility, our responsibility is 402 00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:18.920 too through brand elevation. Is that impact. I mean we talked last time 403 00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:23.079 a little bit um Michael Elliots, our former dean uh in Ree College, 404 00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:26.440 he's now president at Amherst, and he said this one time, it is 405 00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:32.680 always resonating. I was like two weeks on the jobs that our responsibility is 406 00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:36.920 to create and share knowledge. It is that is at the core of what 407 00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:41.920 we do UM and we have that responsibility. We're not sharing the knowledge to 408 00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:45.319 the broadest audience possible. We are delinquent in our mission and I think that 409 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:52.640 is ultimately what we we should continue to do. It's great. I just 410 00:29:52.720 --> 00:30:00.279 came back from a conference of marketers and the number one topic that was discussed 411 00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:07.000 was d e I and wanted to know if you could share what types of 412 00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:11.960 conversations, uh, what you're doing at Emory in regard to d e I. 413 00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:18.759 It is a focus of ours here and it is a It is not 414 00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:22.799 something that is an indestination. It is a constant journey and some you can't 415 00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:29.279 you have to work at. I think you can't be a proficient marketer or 416 00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:34.240 communicator unless you focus on d e I because it is about seeing people for 417 00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:38.359 who they are, understanding the journeys they have been on, the obstacles that 418 00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:42.480 are in their way, how you communicate, how you how you're relevant, 419 00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:49.039 and so it means listening more than talking, and I think too long and 420 00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:52.519 that's been the challenge of the work that we do is that we talk a 421 00:30:52.519 --> 00:30:56.279 lot, and our job is to talk, is to send out messages, 422 00:30:56.960 --> 00:31:02.720 and oftentimes we don't hear or pause, and personas are one way to do 423 00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:07.079 this, to think through this, to think through experiences. I was talking 424 00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:12.160 to some colleagues at an institution as an international institution, and they have students 425 00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:15.480 and faculty from a hundred different countries, and they were talking about the unique 426 00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:22.960 challenges of how they think about UH marketing communications. And I said and asked 427 00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:25.920 me what I would do. I said, well, you have to go 428 00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:30.000 engage with those communities. You have to be open to that feedback, You 429 00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:33.559 have to challenge your own assumptions. You constantly have to work. There's trainings, 430 00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:37.359 but it is being empathetic at your core. Not to get too far 431 00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:41.039 back, but I started my workout at a at a great crisis center. 432 00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:45.039 I worked on the crisis line of the community education work is kind of how 433 00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:49.200 I got into the nonprofit sector, and large part of that training was to 434 00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:52.079 listen. Is that we've talked about constant act of listening to the person in 435 00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:56.400 front of you, How do you understand that person in front of you? 436 00:31:56.160 --> 00:32:00.599 And then you have to scale too, And so I think those are the 437 00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:06.319 the core elements that come to d I. You you're going to be uncomfortable. 438 00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:10.039 That's okay, I mean it is there are uncomfortable conversations, but and 439 00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:15.799 you should have those if you want to be able to build a diverse team. 440 00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:20.200 It is a it is a conscious effort and is something you have to 441 00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:22.640 work at. You can't be passive and wait for it to come. So 442 00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:28.319 I think it's we're never gonna fully be there, but it is something we 443 00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:31.839 will always strive for. Yeah, that's such a great reminder, Cutler. 444 00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:35.920 I think that, um, you know, it gets to the point of 445 00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:39.079 empathy. And I've often told people many many times. I mean, I 446 00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:45.759 honestly think that d e I has been taken hostage by politics sometimes and honestly, 447 00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:47.920 when you get back to it, and I made this comment in a 448 00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:52.279 webinar did recently, is that it's really about doing the right thing. It's 449 00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:57.680 it's it's really more about golden rule type of thinking than it is anything specific 450 00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:00.160 to d E I. And I I'm really glad to hear you say that 451 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:04.720 and and talk about it from an empathy standpoint, because I think that's where 452 00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:07.119 it needs to start. And um, and I really appreciate you sharing that. 453 00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:15.720 Thanks. We closed each show by asking our guests that gives us so 454 00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:20.559 much during the show, if there was one last piece of advice that you 455 00:33:20.599 --> 00:33:24.640 could give that someone could implement immediately, what would that piece of advice be? 456 00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:30.319 Ye? Again, I think I'll go back to what I said earlier. 457 00:33:30.519 --> 00:33:36.119 It is giving yourself the space and the time and to really slow down 458 00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:42.039 and to really pause for a second and try to understand who you're talking to 459 00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:45.319 and and really and when I say understand, it is not just you know 460 00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:49.480 all the standard things, it's who they are, what are they experience on 461 00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:52.039 a daily basis? UM trying to how do I figure out how to meet 462 00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:58.680 them where they're at UH and challenge your assumptions around that and giving yourself the 463 00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:04.200 space to do that is critically important. We talk here a lot kind of 464 00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:08.519 around UM. We have James Rapers, or head of kind of health and 465 00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:13.920 wellness services on campus UM, and he talks about the The goal is not 466 00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:17.039 happiness. The goal is to acknowledge your human and we've taken a set for 467 00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:21.159 us. The goal is to acknowledge the other person's human as well, and 468 00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:24.480 so understanding yourself and understand the other person. UM, it'll it'll make you 469 00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:29.239 stronger in the field, and it will make you understand your audience better. 470 00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:32.039 It'll make you a better market communicator, leader, colleague, and everything. 471 00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:37.400 Thank you Cudler, and thank you for your time that you've given us, 472 00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:42.760 the wisdom, the energy that you gave us that wisdom through. I'm sure 473 00:34:42.760 --> 00:34:45.639 there are people that we're not familiar with you but would love to reach out 474 00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:50.039 to you. For them, what would be the best way for them to 475 00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:53.159 reach out and connect with you. I love connecting with people in the field, 476 00:34:53.239 --> 00:34:58.440 so whether it's LinkedIn or email, I'm fairly easy to get in touch 477 00:34:58.519 --> 00:35:02.280 with. UM may not always respond right away, so don't hesitate to pay 478 00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:07.679 me again just because of schedules, but that's actually the best part about this. 479 00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:12.000 So feel free to shoot me a message via linked in or email. 480 00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:15.639 I'll be there. My email is easy. It's just cutlor dot Andrews at 481 00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:20.639 Emory dot EEDU. There's not many of us out there. Thank you, 482 00:35:21.400 --> 00:35:23.519 Bart. Do you have any closing comments you would like to make before we 483 00:35:23.559 --> 00:35:28.320 close our show? Yeah, this has been an incredible episode. I mean 484 00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:32.639 we've talked about everything from content to a lot of emotional intelligence, uh, 485 00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:37.679 you know, through through empathy and through patients, you know, slowing down 486 00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:40.039 to speed up those types of things. And then one thing I really appreciated 487 00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:44.239 that that Cutler said, and I'm going to focus on this for just a 488 00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:46.559 moment because I you know, I work with a lot of faith based schools. 489 00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:51.480 A lot of schools are similar to what Cutler is talking about, where 490 00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:57.039 we're humbled to a fault sometimes and I think that while that is very admirable 491 00:35:57.119 --> 00:36:00.119 trait, sometimes when we need to tell the stories and move the move the 492 00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:05.440 bricks for our university, we need to actually talk about it in a greater 493 00:36:05.559 --> 00:36:07.440 context. And so you know, I was talking to a faith based school 494 00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:10.519 the other day and we talked about it in the context of Kingdom work type 495 00:36:10.519 --> 00:36:14.760 of thing, and that's more of a religious area and angle to it. 496 00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:17.239 But I think from from Cutler standpoint, whether you're at a state school or 497 00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:21.719 other place, talk about the impact that it has for your university. For 498 00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:28.400 those alumni that are proud of their h that and actually gain some worth from 499 00:36:28.519 --> 00:36:31.360 their degree, um there there's some some worth in that for them, and 500 00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:37.119 so being being able to kind of move beyond maybe that personal humility to more 501 00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:40.280 of that greater good for the for the for the university or the college is 502 00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:43.480 a little bit something that we need to look at, especially when we tell 503 00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:47.440 the stories, when we talk about how those stories might impact them. You 504 00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:51.960 know, I love the story about Dooley and the fact that there's a there's 505 00:36:51.519 --> 00:36:55.039 a sub story within Emory. Finding those and being able to tell those I 506 00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:58.960 think are so important and I I really liked you know, there were three 507 00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:02.519 points that that Kelor made there at the end was identifying the stories, telling 508 00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:07.079 them through the appropriate channels with empathy, and then also keeping them evergreen so 509 00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:10.360 that they can kind of continue on and making that impact. And I guess 510 00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:15.199 that's the overall idea, is that let's be able to tell our stories to 511 00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:20.000 make a greater impact than just what we might feel ourselves. So thanks again, 512 00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:24.079 Keyler, this has been such a good conversation. Bart Cutler, thank 513 00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:30.920 you both. The Hired Marketer podcast is sponsored by Kaylor Solutions and Education marketing 514 00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:37.480 and branding agency. Also by Ring Digital, a marketing firm that specializes in 515 00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:43.760 boosting lifting yield for higher ed with unique, targeted and accurate digital marketing campaigns, 516 00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:49.679 and by Thing Patented a marketing execution company combining direct mail and unique digital 517 00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:53.719 stacks for higher ED outreach success. On behalf of Bart kaylor my co host, 518 00:37:54.000 --> 00:38:00.599 I'm Troy Singer. Thank you for listening. You've been listening to the 519 00:38:00.679 --> 00:38:06.039 Higher ED Marketer. To ensure that you never miss an episode, Subscribe to 520 00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:09.599 the show in your favorite podcast player. If you're listening with Apple Podcasts, 521 00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:14.440 we'd love for you to leave a quick rating of the show. Simply tap 522 00:38:14.440 --> 00:38:17.199 the number of stars you think the podcast deserves. Until next time.