The Key to Successful Content Marketing

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:06.320 The High Red Marketer podcast is sponsored by the ZEMI APP enabling colleges and universities 2 00:00:06.519 --> 00:00:14.800 to engage interested students before they even apply. You're listening to the Higher Ed 3 00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:20.120 Marketer, a podcast geared towards marketing professionals in higher education. This show will 4 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:25.039 tackle all sorts of questions related to student recruitment, donor relations, marketing trends, 5 00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:29.839 new technologies and so much more. If you're looking for conversations centered around 6 00:00:29.839 --> 00:00:34.000 where the industry is going, this podcast is for you. Let's get into 7 00:00:34.039 --> 00:00:42.719 the show. Welcome to another edition of the Higher Ed Marketer Podcast, where, 8 00:00:42.759 --> 00:00:47.359 each week we interview high reed marketers that we admire for the benefit and 9 00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:52.119 the betterment of the entire Higher Ed Marketing Community. Today, Bart, we 10 00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:57.920 get to talk to one of the leading influencers and minds in higher red marketing, 11 00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:02.079 I should say in marketing for all, Jay Bear, and if you 12 00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:07.879 haven't heard that name, it's a name that you should know and should follow, 13 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:15.799 because he is a best selling author and just someone that gives great content 14 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:19.719 around effective marketing. Yeah, I I got introduced to Jay through one of 15 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:23.719 his books called utility, probably about nearly ten years ago. I think it 16 00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:26.920 came out in two thousand thirteen. It really is one of those things. 17 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:30.680 You know, and you all know that you know when you when you read 18 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:34.359 a book and it really kind of changes the way that you think about things, 19 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:36.719 kind of opens your eyes to a lot of things. That's what Jay's 20 00:01:36.760 --> 00:01:41.359 book did to me, Um, really kind of influenced my my thoughts about 21 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:44.760 content marketing. Um, you know, I could probably even say that the 22 00:01:44.879 --> 00:01:49.079 genesis of the Higher Ed Marketer happened then, because I realized that there's questions 23 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:53.040 that people have, there's there's things that they're searching for, and what we 24 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:56.319 need to do is provide that. And so that's part of the part of 25 00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:59.719 why we do the Higher Ed Marketers, to provide those answers that you might 26 00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:02.799 be seeking and you might not even know those questions yet, and so bringing 27 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:06.519 on people like Jay to do that. He's been a leading thinker in this. 28 00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:08.639 He's been in the in the space for years. He Um, I 29 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:13.639 got introduced to him through Ethan Braden, who's another one of our guests who 30 00:02:13.639 --> 00:02:15.360 have been on the on the podcast a couple of times, and so I 31 00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:20.280 really like everything that Jay talks about. I really like to the fact that 32 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:23.560 Jay has his foot in both higher ed marketing, but he does a lot 33 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:28.120 of work in corporate too, and I remember, you know, early in 34 00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:30.599 my career I was doing work with with, you know, higher education, 35 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:34.879 uh schools, but I was also doing work with like motorole in our C 36 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:38.639 A and consumer brands, and you learn a lot about just the way marketing 37 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:42.879 works and how to apply that back and forth, and so I think Jay 38 00:02:42.919 --> 00:02:46.759 brings that expertise as well. You'll be a fan after this episode, if 39 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:50.879 you aren't a fan already of Jay. Here's our conversation with Jay Bear. 40 00:02:54.199 --> 00:02:59.400 We are so excited to welcome to the High Ed Marketer podcast Jay Bear. 41 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:04.800 With a lot of you know, is a author of six books, best 42 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:08.639 sellers, also a hall of fame keynote speaker and MC but a lot of 43 00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:14.039 us know him as the business leader. He is the founder of convinced and 44 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:19.599 convert, which is a content marketing, consulting and Social Media Strategy Company. 45 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:23.479 Jay, thank you so much for joining the Higher Reed Marketer podcast. Trey 46 00:03:23.479 --> 00:03:27.199 Bart, fantastic to be here. Thanks for having me excited to be on 47 00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:31.639 the show. If you could for those that might not be familiar with convincing 48 00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:37.039 convert. Could you let us know what the company does, especially around Higher 49 00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:40.879 Reed Marketing? Sure you bet. Or a fifteen year old consultancy with strategists 50 00:03:40.879 --> 00:03:49.039 located across the United States. We help midsize sand large organizations do better digital 51 00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:53.080 marketing and better overall customer experience. I have lots of clients in Higher Ed 52 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:58.800 for whom we help them with social media content marketings. Are Pan Digital Strategy, 53 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:04.000 digital transfer, Shin customer experience, essentially taking what they're doing and making 54 00:04:04.039 --> 00:04:10.280 it better. We're not a tactical frontline agency in the classic sense. You 55 00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:14.400 know, we're not gonna design your facebook ads, for example, but we'll 56 00:04:14.439 --> 00:04:18.759 tell you what you should be doing in in in paid advertising strategically. That's 57 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:24.120 great, Troy. I just wanted to jump in and I'm so excited to 58 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:27.959 have J on here. I've I've I think I was introduced to Jay's work 59 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:32.160 in two thousand thirteen when he launched his book utility, and it's one that 60 00:04:32.279 --> 00:04:36.480 I kind of really framed the way that I looked at digital marketing and content 61 00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:40.879 marketing. Um, you know, I've I've had a lot of people see 62 00:04:40.920 --> 00:04:45.000 my slides where I have quoted J in those and I've always been struck with 63 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:47.439 the idea that the key, and I really believe this truly is the key, 64 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:51.680 to really successful content marketing is being able to answer the questions that your 65 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:56.959 your prospective students want and what they're seeking for. And you know that that 66 00:04:57.000 --> 00:05:00.839 goes all the way across so many things. And and I really think that 67 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:03.920 when we get into talking about social media strategy, uh, I mean, 68 00:05:03.959 --> 00:05:06.240 that's really where a lot of things start, isn't? Isn't a jam? 69 00:05:06.279 --> 00:05:11.319 Mean we've really got to be able to, you know, understand where the 70 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:15.360 mindset is of our perspective students and what's going on. Yeah, it's tricky 71 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:19.920 because the goal is not to be good at social media. The goal is 72 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:25.160 to be good at at business or higher red because of social media, and 73 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:28.480 sometimes those work a little bit across purposes. I would I would argue that 74 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:34.920 higher reed organizations have as difficult of a strategic assignment as any kind of organization 75 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:40.959 with regards to social media, because there are so many strategic mouths to feat. 76 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:44.199 Right, you've got an enrollment goal, you've got, uh, an 77 00:05:44.199 --> 00:05:46.319 overall branding goal. Maybe you've got an athletics school, you've got a student 78 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:50.000 services and student life goal and on. And then you've got individual units and 79 00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:55.120 departments, Um, humanities and everything else. There's just a lot of people 80 00:05:55.600 --> 00:05:59.839 wanting to use social media for a lot of different things, Um, and 81 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:02.519 you only have so many accounts and figuring out what goes on the main account 82 00:06:02.560 --> 00:06:08.439 and what goes on the individual accounts and how they intersect and and what gets 83 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:12.399 elevated to the mother ship. It's just a challenge, which is why convinced 84 00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:16.439 convert work works with so many major higher ed organizations to try and solve that 85 00:06:16.519 --> 00:06:19.879 challenge. And there's no right answer. It does depend on campus and sort 86 00:06:19.879 --> 00:06:24.480 of the culture of each organization a little bit, but, Um, it's 87 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:28.439 it's not an easy problem to solve. Yeah, I think you're exactly right. 88 00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:30.759 And full transparency, Jay, and I met through Ethan Braden, who's 89 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:33.680 been on the podcast a couple of times. He's a friend of the Higher 90 00:06:33.759 --> 00:06:38.639 Ed Marketer and so a purdue. I know that they've leveraged a lot of 91 00:06:38.680 --> 00:06:42.040 your expertise and the work of convinced and convert, but I think that one 92 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:44.639 of the things you just said that reminded me of a conversation we have with 93 00:06:44.680 --> 00:06:47.560 Brian Kenney who's the CMO at Harvard Business School. Um. We had him 94 00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:51.879 on the podcast a few episodes ago and he's been in you know, he's 95 00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:55.759 he's sat in the CMO seat in a lot of different industries and and he's 96 00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:59.480 convinced that higher Ed is one of the most difficult industries to do marketing, 97 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:01.839 and primarily for what you just said. There's so many mouths to feed, 98 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:05.839 there's so many constituent groups that really when you think about it, how many 99 00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:12.040 other how many other firms have to you know why? You know, market 100 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:15.560 to the wide swath of of all the generations in certain ways, that that 101 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:20.120 that higher ed does. No question and it's such a good point and really 102 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:29.000 salient today when you're trying to communicate to, say, a faculty member versus 103 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:33.920 a alum, versus a parent of a current student, versus an existing student 104 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:41.199 versus a perspective student, those are five colossally different personas. We're lucky at 105 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:44.519 convinced a convert because we do a lot of higher ed strategy, but also 106 00:07:44.560 --> 00:07:47.920 a lot of strategy and other industries, traveling, tourism, technology, financial 107 00:07:47.959 --> 00:07:51.160 services and on and on and on. And I will tell you, like 108 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:55.839 Cisco, for example, is a large client of ours. CISCO HAS A 109 00:07:55.879 --> 00:08:00.000 lot of different client types. It's a giant global company, but those client 110 00:08:00.199 --> 00:08:05.000 types and those audiences are far and more similar then what you would find in 111 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:11.000 any modestly sized, Higher Ed Organization. So you can't really have a strategy. 112 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:16.600 You've got a whole bunch of other strategy. You've got many specific strategies 113 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:20.639 that work together. Is really the approach, and I think you mentioned in 114 00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:22.920 Ethan from purduce. They've done a nice job figuring that out right, that 115 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:30.079 there is a master strategy and then specific strategies and operations plans for each key 116 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:33.799 unit and even for each key theme or or differentiator that produce has. I 117 00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:37.759 like how you how you articulated that, because I think that that's one of 118 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:41.240 the keys, especially when we're talking about social media. I mean you've got 119 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:43.759 so many different audiences to begin with. Then you have the preferred channels that 120 00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:48.519 those audiences like to consume their social media. And you know, I was 121 00:08:48.759 --> 00:08:52.480 I was doing a Prev presentation recently to a group of colleges and and and 122 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:56.360 and leaders and I was pointing out a slide that I had done in two 123 00:08:56.399 --> 00:09:00.159 thousand sixteen and I said you know my daughter, she's twelve. She's into 124 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:03.039 this new social media called musically, something you need to be paying attention to 125 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:07.000 because, you know, I don't know enough about it, but she's really 126 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:09.039 into it and her friends are into it. Well, guess what it's called 127 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:13.000 Tiktok today and uh, it's it's one of those things that, you know, 128 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:16.200 I have so many, so many higher ed marketers that tell me, 129 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:18.879 boy, I just can't keep up. and Um, I often say, 130 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:24.000 you know, what are you doing per the segment and are you doing those 131 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:26.200 well, because there's no sense of you getting into Tiktok if you're not even 132 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:31.279 doing facebook well for your alumni. Absolutely, yeah, there's no question. 133 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:37.480 But you may put different people on each of those channels for for different purposes. 134 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:41.440 And you're right, though. I mean marketing has a very difficult challenge, 135 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:48.200 and really has since the invention of the Internet, in that the tactics 136 00:09:48.279 --> 00:09:54.200 and the cadence of marketing changes perhaps more than any other element of the enterprise. 137 00:09:56.039 --> 00:09:58.759 You never have a quarter, much less a year, much last five 138 00:09:58.840 --> 00:10:01.399 year, like yeah, we're just doing the same thing again, like never. 139 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:07.960 Right, it's constant, constant optimization and reinvention, and I will tell 140 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:11.320 you some people are totally wired for that Gig and other people just aren't. 141 00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:15.200 And it doesn't make them bad marketers and it certainly doesn't make them bad people, 142 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:18.440 but it does make them perhaps ill suited for modern marketing, because I 143 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:20.440 can tell you I've been doing this now for thirty years. I started in 144 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:26.200 the Internet business when domain names were free, and I can tell you it's 145 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:28.720 not gonna get easier. It's not like you know, oh, but you 146 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:31.639 know what, in that we're gonna stop having new stuff to worry about. 147 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:35.480 Nope, it's just gonna get harder. And I love your tiktok example, 148 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:41.799 because Tiktok is working the exact same pattern that every other social network has worked. 149 00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:45.080 It starts with the youth and then it Broun's its appealed to other people. 150 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:48.399 To wit. Gentlemen, I am a Tequila teacher. I'm a certified 151 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:56.240 Tequila Somalia and I've recently started a Tiktok Tequila teaching channel, Tequila Jay Bear. 152 00:10:56.759 --> 00:11:01.679 I just put out a TIKTOK video ten days ago. Eight hundred and 153 00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:07.080 seventy five thousand views on Tiktok me talking to a camera about Tequila. Right 154 00:11:07.159 --> 00:11:11.240 I mean it's it's crazy, crazy, yeah, and I we had we 155 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:13.720 had Rob Clark on a couple of weeks ago. He's a former director of 156 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:16.519 admissions at one of the schools that that I'm affiliated with and that's how we 157 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:20.080 met. He since, you know, left his his son is seven one 158 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:24.320 and so he's a he's a junior in high school and so he's working towards, 159 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:26.519 you know, d one type of scholarships. But they started a tiktok 160 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:30.679 account called the tall family and, uh, you know, they've had over 161 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:33.360 your you know who they are, and they've had over a billion views. 162 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:39.519 And he talked about how how enrollment and and Higher Ed marketers need to approach 163 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:41.159 this, and I just want to kind of run it past you. He 164 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:46.039 said we've got to stop acting like this is the alumni magazine and reviewing everything 165 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:52.080 and getting approvals. You have to basically just kind of work, you know, 166 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:54.559 get the students involved and just start doing it on a daily basis, 167 00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:58.639 and that's the only way you're gonna gain followers. And I had this conversation 168 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:01.000 last week on a campus and, you know, the marketing team was like, 169 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:03.480 well, this is the rules, we're gonna do one TIKTOK per week. 170 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:07.960 One is by the admissions team and one by the marketing team, and 171 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:11.919 I'm like, you're never going to get any followers that way because it's it 172 00:12:11.320 --> 00:12:16.960 doesn't fit the model of traditional, you know, marketing brand approval in a 173 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:22.279 large organization. Yeah, when you think about content, there's a couple of 174 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:28.000 different approaches. There's the filmmaker approach. We're gonna make a movie and that 175 00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:33.600 movie is going to have talented actors and it's going to have a professional director 176 00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:37.360 and we're probably gonna have a lighting crew and a microphone and maybe even like 177 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:41.600 a table of free food just off camera. Right it's a craft shop. 178 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:46.240 And then you've got sort of the documentary style, which is we're just walking 179 00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:50.960 around at the camera and we'll fix it in edit. And tiktok very much 180 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:54.960 rewards the latter, not the former. In fact, most people who overproduce 181 00:12:56.679 --> 00:13:00.960 and sort of trying to make their tiktok's quote unquote, profect Chanel uh, 182 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:05.039 it usually doesn't work as well as if it is a little more run and 183 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:09.639 gun. There's a level of authenticity there which, frankly, used to be 184 00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:13.240 the case when instagram first came out. was certainly the case when vine first 185 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:18.120 came out. So a lot of these neo platforms, because they start younger, 186 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:24.879 tend to Um tune their algorithm around kind of unofficial style content and then, 187 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:28.200 as you get bigger and you've got more AD dollars from larger brands to 188 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:31.919 play sometimes they start to tilt it back the other way towards a little bit 189 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:35.480 more structured content. We'll see what happens with TIKTOK. Yeah, yeah, 190 00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:43.399 that's a good point. Another challenge that your company addresses is alignment between enrollments 191 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:54.720 in either corporate operations or with sorry, thank you very much, Jay. 192 00:13:56.519 --> 00:14:03.159 Another challenge that convinced and convert addresses is alignement between enrollment and also marketing or 193 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:09.279 corporate organization. Like to know if you could kind of explain the challenges that 194 00:14:09.320 --> 00:14:13.480 you address and how you fix them for organizations. Yeah, I mean one 195 00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:18.679 of the challenges that we see constantly when we work with higher ed is that 196 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:24.480 many cases the enrollment marketing function and the enrollment marketing team is kind of isolated. 197 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:28.360 They oftentimes have their own assignment, their own metrics, their own budget 198 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:33.320 and that's not necessarily integrated into the enterprise. There's some obvious inefficiencies to do 199 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:39.080 in marketing that way. But the bigger challenge is that in many cases enrollment 200 00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:45.519 marketing is writing checks that the operations of the university can't cash. So so 201 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:48.639 they're saying this is what it's like to be a student here and please fill 202 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:52.480 out this very complicated application that doesn't work on a mobile phone. And then 203 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:56.200 somebody decides okay, yeah, I'm interested, and then they come for a 204 00:14:56.279 --> 00:14:58.440 tour, but the tour doesn't really say the things that they heard in the 205 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:01.840 enrollment keeting. And then they show up on campus, they decide to matriculate 206 00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:07.039 and it's a different set of circumstances as well. So in business we wouldn't 207 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:09.440 do it that way. Right, in a non higher ed world you would 208 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:13.159 never do it that way. You would have a unified customer journey map that 209 00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:18.840 says, all right, what messages do we say about our business at the 210 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:22.960 awareness phase? What messages do we say at the interest phase, what messages 211 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:24.399 do we say at the conversion phase, what messages do we say at the 212 00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:30.200 advocacy phase? And those are aligned so that we're always telling a similar story 213 00:15:30.759 --> 00:15:35.120 and we're and we're changing that story based on funnel stage in Higher Ed. 214 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:41.200 So often the story changes based on department and that causes some confusion, uh 215 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:46.600 and and, frankly, some dissatisfaction amongst students and parents later down in the 216 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:50.679 process. So aligning that and trying to get everybody sitting out of the same 217 00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:52.720 hymnal as one of the things that we've done a lot at convince and convert. 218 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:58.559 Wouldn't you say to J that, based on that Um? You know, 219 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:03.200 I've often and I know there's different, different modes of thinking about this 220 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:04.919 and honestly, I think in the thirty years that I've worked in the Higher 221 00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:08.240 Ed Space, Um, I have seen a big shift in you know, 222 00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:11.759 thirty years ago, you you get a lot of cold stairs if you use 223 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:15.919 the word customer or sales or anything that had to do. I mean, 224 00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:18.240 it was kind of like taboo to talk about, you know, the business 225 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:22.840 of of higher education. I see that changing. But I see that in 226 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:26.799 some like some schools, like, I'm going to use Ethernet per due, 227 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:30.080 there's chief marketing officers sitting at the table, they are at the at the 228 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:33.919 top of the table and they are driving a lot of of what's going on. 229 00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:37.039 Um. Other institutions that I work with, though a lot of times 230 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:41.559 faculty. You are driving that and there's a lot of a lot of tension, 231 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:45.360 a lot of challenges going on because, I mean, I talked to 232 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:48.399 a market or the other day that said, Hey, I just got word 233 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:51.080 that we have a new program that they want filled for fall and I have 234 00:16:51.159 --> 00:16:53.639 to market and fill it for the next three three months and I don't even 235 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:56.759 know it's if it's market a bowl. I don't know if there's a desire 236 00:16:56.759 --> 00:17:02.080 in the marketplace for this particular program how, how are you working with your 237 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:04.839 clients about that? I mean, is that something you're experiencing and it's and 238 00:17:04.839 --> 00:17:10.039 and how how do you help? You know that the marketing officers realize that 239 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:12.240 they've they've got to have a seat there and they've got to have a voice 240 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:19.200 at some level. We assist with that kind of change management. Uh, 241 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:23.759 and in fact there's a number of large institutions where we've been really intimately involved 242 00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:29.000 in, I don't want to say centralizing marketing, because sometimes that takes on 243 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:33.559 a negative connotation inside higher reed, but from a functional standpoint that's a little 244 00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:37.279 bit of how it goes. Like somebody is a CMO and we can decide 245 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:41.279 what the unified strategy is and then here's what the department strategy is. So 246 00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:42.720 we've done a lot of that work with Arizona State, for example, and 247 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:47.839 in other organizations that have a little bit more of a business style command and 248 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:51.759 control structure. And then we've also worked with lots and lots of higher reed 249 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:56.759 that has more of the traditional decentralized marketing approach that you just mentioned, Bart 250 00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:00.400 when when we are in the decentralized approach, oftentimes we advocate for a little 251 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:04.359 bit more of a centralized Um way of doing things, but but typically that 252 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:10.839 is that is a provost in president level decision that that supersedes our ability as 253 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:15.559 consultants too effectually change. So when we have a decentralized system, the best 254 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:19.440 thing you can do, in my estimation, is to really leak into centers 255 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:23.519 of excellence to say look, we've got a whole bunch of of talented marketers 256 00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:29.200 on on staff in a bunch of different units on campus. Let's make sure 257 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:33.759 that if somebody learns something, everybody learns something. So a lot of knowledge 258 00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:36.480 transfer, a lot of weekly meetings. In a lot of cases my team 259 00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:40.079 will actually create the agendas and run the meetings and say hey, this week 260 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:45.359 we're gonna do a whole session for every marketer on campus about video, s 261 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:51.039 e o or whatever the topic is, so that everybody kind of levels up, 262 00:18:51.079 --> 00:18:53.559 because if you don't have a structure where there's managers and directors and VPS, 263 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:57.920 etcetera, where the knowledge transfer happens waterfowl style, you have to have 264 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:03.799 a scenario where the knowledge transfer happens horizontally, like river style, and and 265 00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:07.079 that's the best way you can. You can still execute marketing. If somebody 266 00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:11.000 says, Hey, congratulations, you've got two months to Philip Program you've never 267 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:12.839 heard of. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I think that there's a lot 268 00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:18.319 of common challenges. Whether it's a very small school or whether it's, you 269 00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:21.599 know, a large, d one school, there there's challenges that we all 270 00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:23.559 share. That's part of the reason why we're doing this podcast. So I'm 271 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:30.720 happy that you're here. Try. Similarly, you're helping universities understand the communication 272 00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:34.799 modalities and how they can best utilize and communicate within them. Can you explain 273 00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:40.160 how you help universities with that? What I say modality, what I actually 274 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:44.160 mean is the format of the communication. Is it text, is it audio? 275 00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:47.079 Is it video? Is it a puppet show? Is it, AH, 276 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:48.880 you know, a cookie gram? There's a lot of ways to communicate 277 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:52.720 these these days. Higher Reed has historically, of course, been I don't 278 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:57.240 want to say addicted to, but certainly a proponent of written communication, and 279 00:19:57.319 --> 00:20:03.480 there's certainly nothing wrong with that. But probably more than any time maybe in 280 00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:10.240 recorded history, we have broader differences in modality preference than we maybe ever have. 281 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:15.680 It is very, very true that younger people prefer not reading. In 282 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:18.680 many cases it's I'll tell you a story about that. So when my son, 283 00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:22.119 who's now a junior at Indiana University, when he still lived at home, 284 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:23.440 it is pretty common that we'd be having breakfast in the morning at the 285 00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:26.880 kind of the breakfast breakfast bar there. I'd be on my phone and he'd 286 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:30.599 be on his phone and I look over and we'd both be on ESPN DOT 287 00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:33.920 com. We're both big sports fans, and we'd be on the exact same 288 00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:38.279 article, except I'd be reading the article and he'd be watching the video because, 289 00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:41.079 as many people know, it's very common on a site like that that 290 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:45.799 they put a video on top and then the full text underneath, and I 291 00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:48.799 would be reading it because I am an old and he would be watching the 292 00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:52.319 video because he is a young now that is an oversimplification of reality, but 293 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:57.799 not very much. The New York Times did a study last year where they 294 00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:03.599 interviewed like two thousand college students about their modality preferences, and my favorite quote 295 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:07.559 in the whole study was from a college student who said every time I get 296 00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:12.839 an email I feel like I'm being stabbed. It's just something else for me 297 00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:21.480 to do. Yet how often does higher ed rely on email as like the 298 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:26.039 exclusive means of student communication? And it is not at all atypical, and 299 00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:27.920 you, gentlemen both know this, as do many of your listeners, that 300 00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:33.160 the only reason these students are checking email is because the university might send them 301 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:37.200 something. Like my son Ethan has like forty D unread emails. I just 302 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:41.000 saw his phone. He came over for dinner last night and I'm like forty 303 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:42.799 D unread emails. Who are these from? He's like I don't know, 304 00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:48.240 I don't check my email imminently. So we've just got to understand that we 305 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:52.680 can't create content only in the formats that we prefer. We have to create 306 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:57.720 content in the formats that our audience prefers and sometimes that means you've got to 307 00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:02.359 take the same message, the same story and make it in a bunch of 308 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:07.480 different ways. Take the same message about Your Alumni Association and and what happens 309 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:11.880 when you graduate in your first part of the Alumni Association. That's an important 310 00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:15.559 piece of communication. Do that in text, but also do it in audio 311 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:18.240 as a series of podcasts, and also do it as a series of videos 312 00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:21.200 and also do it in direct mail. Do it all the different ways. 313 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:25.200 There's no right answer. The right answer is making sure you create everything in 314 00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:29.039 the format that people actually want. We talk a lot about it on this 315 00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:33.319 show. Schools are really struggling today that make the same at spend work. 316 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:38.000 CPMS are up eight nine year over year on facebook and instagram. Our College 317 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:42.559 clients are no longer looking for rented audiences. They're looking for an owned community 318 00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:47.720 where they can engage students even before they apply. This is why Zemi has 319 00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:52.160 become so crucial for our clients. With over one million students, close to 320 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:56.839 ten thousand five star ratings, consistently ranked as one of the top social laps 321 00:22:56.160 --> 00:23:00.440 and recently one of Apple's hot APPs of the week. There simply isn't anything 322 00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:04.200 out there like it and we have seen it all. Zem Not only provides 323 00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:08.640 the best space for student engagement but the most unique and actional data for the 324 00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:15.480 sixty college and university partners. We know firsthand from our clients that Zee me 325 00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:19.400 is a must have strategy for Gen z check them out now at colleges dot 326 00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:26.440 Zem dot com. That's colleges dot Z E M E dot Com. And 327 00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:30.400 yes, tell them Barton Troy sent you. I like. I like that 328 00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:37.440 because I think that not only do we need to two recommend or not only 329 00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:41.680 do we need to do recognize, but also, Um, basically allow them 330 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:44.880 to have the choice and preference of how they do that. I mean, 331 00:23:44.920 --> 00:23:48.440 I love so many times when somebody says, what's your preferred way of communicating? 332 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:49.000 Do you want to have a text? You want an email? Do 333 00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:52.319 you want to have a phone call? Well, certain times I'll want to 334 00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:56.599 text, other times I met one a phone call, young, old, 335 00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:59.079 it doesn't matter. We have our own preferences and I think that it's time 336 00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:02.720 that we really start to, you know, honor everybody's preferences, especially since 337 00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:03.920 there's so many ways and, as you said, there's not a right or 338 00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:07.200 wrong way to do it, but it's just a matter of the more we 339 00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:11.200 can do that. We talk so much about personalization Troy, and I've talked 340 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:14.440 about that a lot. I'm sure you guys talk about that too, Jay, 341 00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:18.920 and the importance of especially for traditional Undergrad but even really anybody. Everybody 342 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:23.359 likes to feel personalized and they like to feel recognized. Part of that personalization 343 00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:26.279 is not only, you know, serving up content that we know is going 344 00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:30.880 to be relevant to them, but doing it through modality it's going to be 345 00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:36.400 relevant to them as well. Absolutely, personalization is relevance and relevance is respect, 346 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:41.039 and when you offer that respect, it becomes more useful and you gain 347 00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:45.480 more attention. It's a it's a simple formative but harder to do sometimes day 348 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:47.880 to day. I would agree with that. I think that's an excellent point. 349 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:52.160 So along that, thinking of personalization, I know that your company also 350 00:24:52.240 --> 00:25:00.400 helps schools with market research and personal development and the customer journey map being, 351 00:25:00.519 --> 00:25:07.839 and I believe the said Persona Development. How do you help them research that 352 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.640 and develop it and then let them know how to best communicate with those personas? 353 00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:19.359 It's very common troy in in marketing and calms, especially in Higher Ed, 354 00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:26.000 to think of our constituencies based on age. Cohort very, very common 355 00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:30.720 for foundations and alumni associations. You've got the current student cohort, you've got 356 00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:33.920 the recent Grad Cohort, you've got the kind of mid career cohort, the 357 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:38.160 late career corehor the retired cohort, right, and so you think, all 358 00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:41.839 right, let's look at the audience horizontally based on how old they are and 359 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:45.680 in prison, wably, their life stage. Well, it turns out that 360 00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:49.400 that doesn't actually work. Um, psychologically right. It's much better off to 361 00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:57.680 understand what the motivations and relationship is between that alum and the university or college 362 00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:00.960 and that relationship up. As it turns out, based on lots of research 363 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:06.279 we've done from many, many campuses, that relationship is often based on where 364 00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:10.400 they live, what they did in school when they were there, how many 365 00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:12.440 friends they had when they went to school, what activities they were in. 366 00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:17.400 So it's not so much well, if they're fifty, then they should really 367 00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:19.839 be a great candidate for a donation. It's based more so on were they 368 00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:22.720 really active when they're on campus, when they were there, etcetera. Etcetera. 369 00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:30.240 So that kind of research, which is based very much on attitudinal uh 370 00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:34.839 conditions, create richer, more useful personas than just basing it on ape. 371 00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:38.039 I love that and that conversation came up with a couple of clients last week 372 00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:41.200 with the idea that, you know, we've got to necessarily look at what 373 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.799 we were talking about how to gather outcomes, you know, stories that we 374 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:48.480 want to tell people and uh, you know, I think that sometimes we 375 00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:52.880 forget as higher ed marketers that, you know, really those outcomes are going 376 00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:56.400 to be based on the affinities that they had. And so more than likely, 377 00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:59.640 if they had a professor that was really a mentor to them and a 378 00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:03.759 friend and they've continued that relationship through that person is going to know a lot 379 00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:07.599 more than the official alumni office would. Um, you know, a student 380 00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:11.559 is going to just be communicating on facebook or or through email or through texting 381 00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:15.240 or whatever it is, with their with their mentor and with their those professors 382 00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:18.039 and those relationships that they had in that affinity group, whether it was a 383 00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:22.160 department or, you know, theater group or choral group or whatever it was. 384 00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:26.039 Those relationships are there and so I think it's so important that, as 385 00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:30.279 hired markets, we understand through the personas that you just described, but also 386 00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:33.759 to find out where does that knowledge live? And it usually is going to 387 00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:37.920 live deeper down in those affinity groups than it would in any kind of official 388 00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:41.599 database, and what we've got to do is figure out how to harvest it 389 00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:45.240 out of those places and start leveraging it and collecting it and managing in a 390 00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:49.519 way that we can then start to tell those stories. Yeah, start starting 391 00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:53.880 managing that data and collecting it while they're on campus. Has undergrads so often 392 00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:57.200 we start to collect the data once they leave campus, once they've graduated, 393 00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:02.920 and start doing surveys alumnives, etcetera, etcetera, instead of doing more undergrad 394 00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:06.799 surveys to start to build that profile which then can be used later, and 395 00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:10.720 especially now in this era of third party data going away and we're going to 396 00:28:10.839 --> 00:28:14.480 have to really rely on our own collected first and zero party data. The 397 00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:18.880 time to start learning more about your eventual alums is the second they set foot 398 00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:22.640 on campus for the first time, the day they come on the tour for 399 00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:26.319 the first time. What question did they ask on the tour of the tour 400 00:28:26.359 --> 00:28:29.559 guide? That should be in the database. Now, I understand that requires 401 00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:33.640 a lot of centralized operations that a lot of campuses just aren't ready to do 402 00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:36.880 yet, but that's the direction we're got for sure. Those who have the 403 00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:40.000 best data will win, period. I don't care what business you're in, 404 00:28:40.119 --> 00:28:44.000 because matters higher ed or you're selling cars or you're selling jewelry or selling hamburgers. 405 00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:48.200 Whoever knows the most will sell the most. I think it's a great 406 00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:49.880 way to put it. I DID A blog post a couple of years ago 407 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:53.759 that was about kind of the the life cycle of a of a you know, 408 00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:56.640 of of a relationship of a higher ed to a student, and I 409 00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:00.160 started out with, you know, the prospect fae is I think I've figured 410 00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:03.759 out fifty two different, you know, points that they would be, you 411 00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:07.799 know, different persona points that they might be, all the way to a 412 00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:10.640 major donor who has their name on the, you know, a large building 413 00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:14.720 on campus. We have to be able to measure that and keep track of 414 00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:18.480 that and and keep that relationship continuing to grow all the way through. And 415 00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:22.240 No, not every student is going to be a major donor that's going to 416 00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:25.039 have their name on the building. We know that, but we do have 417 00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:27.200 the ability to keep that relationship going and I love that idea that you have 418 00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:32.599 of just being able to figure out that and collect that and and, you 419 00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:37.400 know, quantify and analyze and organize that into data. And, uh, 420 00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:40.720 you know, their tools are out there. It's just the discipline and the 421 00:29:40.759 --> 00:29:44.720 centrality of being able to do that took the words right out of my mouth. 422 00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:47.799 The technology is there right now, today, right it's not a big 423 00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:51.559 deal. It's not our moon launch or anything crazy. It's totally there. 424 00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:56.039 It's just getting the people aligned is so much harder than getting the technology and 425 00:29:56.079 --> 00:30:00.039 perfect. As we bring the episode to a closed, a like to know 426 00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:04.640 if there would be a final thought or an impactful piece of advice that you 427 00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:11.440 could offer our listeners that they could that they could utilize either right away or 428 00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:18.200 within the next week or so. I'll give you two. Uh. One 429 00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:22.039 on the strategy side, I would say it can be really frustrating for higher 430 00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:26.200 end marketers because there's always a very, very long list of things that they 431 00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:32.519 could or should or want to do. Usually the list is longer than their 432 00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:37.359 ability to execute on the list and that creates a lot of Um, I 433 00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:44.480 think, dissatisfaction and and just at some level on happiness amongst marketers in higher 434 00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:47.519 end. And so what I would tell folks out there is, you know, 435 00:30:47.559 --> 00:30:52.519 you can't you can't boil the ocean. Just set out to do a 436 00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:56.000 few things better every ninety days and eventually you'll be on top of it. 437 00:30:56.039 --> 00:30:59.680 When you when you look at the whole list it it seems too daunting. 438 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:02.440 So you've got to focus on a few things and execute on those. And 439 00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:03.880 that's one of the things that our friend ethane perdue has been so good at. 440 00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:07.359 Say Hey, let's let's not let's not keep all the things in mind. 441 00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:11.240 That's his job at the CMO. Let's execute on a few very specific 442 00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:14.480 things, get those done and then move on to the next two or three 443 00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:17.640 things. It's a much better way to go about it. Uh. And 444 00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:21.880 then the second thing I would say on a more on a more tactical Um 445 00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:29.200 side is to understand that sometimes to get your core messaging seen, you have 446 00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:32.640 to wrap it up in messaging that's not escort. So, for example, 447 00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:37.440 we're working with a hired ED institution, I won't name which one, and 448 00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:40.599 their president said, you know, we're we're doing all this great work in 449 00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:44.799 research. How come when we put messages out in social media about that. 450 00:31:44.839 --> 00:31:47.480 It doesn't go anywhere. I'm like well, because it is great work, 451 00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:52.440 but it's not terribly interesting to everybody. It's a little bit dry. And 452 00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:56.200 so what we explained to this president was what I call the Candy, Candy 453 00:31:56.319 --> 00:32:01.480 Vegetables Philosophy. Candy Candy actables works like this. You put something out in 454 00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:06.720 social media that most people are gonna like. It's a it's a nostalgia post 455 00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:10.200 or it's something from the mascot or it's something that's a little more universally beloved. 456 00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:15.279 It's a campus building, it's a cheese steak restaurant near campus, something 457 00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:19.799 like that. It's a trivia question about something on campus. That gets the 458 00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:22.799 algorithm excited about your content. Then you put out another piece of candy, 459 00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:27.480 which gets the Algorithm even more excited about your content, and then you swoop 460 00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:30.839 in there with the vegetables Um and you get a little extra credit from the 461 00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:35.880 Algorithm because you've given them candy before. So this idea of Candy Candy vegetables 462 00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:39.960 we've actually tested many, many times scientifically and it really really works. Sometimes 463 00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:46.680 it's difficult to get some people in the administration to understand that like. Hey, 464 00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:52.359 it's not frivolity, it's marketing and and sort of understanding the difference. 465 00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:57.000 There's some requires some conversations sometime, but it really works. Thank you very 466 00:32:57.079 --> 00:33:00.559 much, Jay. Thank you so much for the wisdom that you've of into 467 00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:04.839 the half an hour that we've had with you. If someone would like to 468 00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:07.119 contact you, I usually ask this question, but you're truly a person that 469 00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:13.319 could just answer it and say Google me. But if someone really wanted to 470 00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:16.799 ask you a question and contact you personally, what would be the best direct 471 00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:22.400 way for them to do so? I'll give you to troy. I'm trying 472 00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:24.680 to over deliver here. First, go to convince and convert DOT COM. 473 00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:30.000 CONVINCE AND CONVERT DOT COM. That's our main website with lots of resources for 474 00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:34.400 hired specifically in marketers in general. And then I have a newsletter which, 475 00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:38.000 ironically, I put out via email. UH, probably a terrible idea. 476 00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:42.200 It's called the bare facts. Comes out twice a month. There's marketing, 477 00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:46.880 customer experience lessons, Tequila reviews, podcast recommendations like this one, book reviews. 478 00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:52.880 It's the bare facts dot com. B A e R. Sign Up. 479 00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:55.559 I'd love to have you a list everyone who is familiar with you is 480 00:33:55.599 --> 00:34:00.039 not surprised that you over deliver with everything you do and keep very much for 481 00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:07.599 being a guest cast part. Any final thoughts from you? Yeah, I 482 00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:09.440 just want to kind of pull out a few things of that I really think 483 00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:13.320 was valuable in this and I would encourage people to, you know, re 484 00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:15.320 listen to this. I mean there's so many really good nuggets in here that 485 00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:19.119 that Jay gave us today and uh, I really appreciate that, Jay. 486 00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:21.360 But a couple of things I just want to point out is that, you 487 00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:23.320 know, when you start tooking looking at this and you start looking at social 488 00:34:23.360 --> 00:34:28.159 media, when you look at content, you've got to understand that there's you 489 00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:30.000 know, yes, you can create that content, but several things that Jay 490 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:32.360 said I want to really point out. There's three things. One is the 491 00:34:32.360 --> 00:34:36.480 modality understanding, you know, the different ways of doing it, and I 492 00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:38.159 really love the comment that he made about the fact that, you know what, 493 00:34:38.199 --> 00:34:40.920 you might have that one message, but I might need to go in 494 00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:45.280 email, texting, video, audio, there might be several different ways of 495 00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:50.159 delivering that message. Don't rely on just one. Don't think that Oh, 496 00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:52.079 we we told him, well, you told him, but you didn't tell 497 00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:55.119 them in their preference. And that goes to the second thing of starting to 498 00:34:55.119 --> 00:35:00.320 really identify who are the personas that we're talking to, whether that's spect of 499 00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:04.199 students that are traditional undergrad whether it's alumni, you know, moving beyond that 500 00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:07.079 what j called the horizontal, you know grouping of everything, but really kind 501 00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:10.960 of looking at that affinity grouping, really trying to kind of then identify those 502 00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:15.880 personas. And then that third item is just really starting to understand how you're 503 00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:17.000 going to do that and the ways you're going to do that. I really 504 00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:22.400 particularly like that Candy, Candy Vegetable example, where you know you've got to 505 00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:23.760 be able to do that, and that's I mean we talked about it being 506 00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:27.280 the algorithms and we talked about it with social media, but you know what, 507 00:35:27.320 --> 00:35:29.760 we all kind of like that. I mean, at the at the 508 00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:34.159 end of the day, our brains are wired to kind of look at things 509 00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:36.840 that we really enjoy and then look at things that we really need to look 510 00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:38.679 at, and that's why a lot of us suffer from some of the things 511 00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:42.840 we suffer from, whether it's a you know, not having the attention that 512 00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:45.760 we need to or or whatever that might be. That's just the way that 513 00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:47.960 we're wired sometimes, and being able to kind of understand that and work within 514 00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:52.199 that is really good, and so I'm just really grateful for for j being 515 00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:53.960 on here today. I would just also remind you, Um, you know, 516 00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:58.519 as I mentioned before, I first learned about J and I've learned a 517 00:35:58.519 --> 00:36:00.239 lot from J through his books. But you know, a couple that I 518 00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:04.400 really you know three that I'm going to point out. Utility, really good 519 00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:07.199 basics of content marketing and and and some of the social media elements. Hug 520 00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:10.320 Your haters, you know how to really kind of engage in relationships and how 521 00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:15.400 those things happen and how you you know, how you respond to those things. 522 00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:17.480 And then the talk triggers, you know, complete guide to creating customers 523 00:36:17.559 --> 00:36:21.119 with word of mouth. said, we didn't really talk about that today, 524 00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:23.920 but I think that's another really big element, especially when you talk about perspective 525 00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:30.159 students and and that generation Z um and and as we talk about generation Alpha 526 00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:31.519 coming. I mean, you know we've talked about that a few times. 527 00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:35.239 We had mark mccrendall on a few episodes ago with the idea of, you 528 00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:37.679 know, he's the leading expert in the world on generation Alpha. He talked 529 00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:40.360 to us about how that's going to be different from any other generation we're working 530 00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:45.480 with, and so start to educate yourself on that, understand that, because 531 00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:49.119 that's gonna be a big part of this word of mouth marketing. Um and 532 00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:52.320 and UH and again, just thank you, Jay. Really appreciate the time 533 00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:57.559 today. My pleasure. Thanks to both of you and everybody listening. If 534 00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:00.320 my team and I can help you, be glady to do so. Thanks 535 00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:06.039 so much. Are leading sponsor for the High Ed Marketer Podcast Zem, where 536 00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:13.480 students share stories and connecting exclusive college communities. Also by Kala solutions and education 537 00:37:13.559 --> 00:37:17.960 marketing and branding agency and finally by Think, patented, a marketing execution company 538 00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:27.039 combining print technology and personalization for higher engagement for colleges and universities. On behalf 539 00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:30.000 of Bart Kaylor, my co host. I'm troy singer. Thank you for 540 00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:37.639 listening. You've been listening to the Higher Ed Marketer. To ensure that you 541 00:37:37.719 --> 00:37:42.559 never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player. 542 00:37:43.480 --> 00:37:45.960 If you're listening with apple podcasts. We'd love for you to leave a quick 543 00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:50.159 rating of the show. Simply tap the number of stars. Do you think 544 00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:52.760 the podcast deserves. Until next time,